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Mar 10, 2012 13:54:16   #
designpro
 
Light Meters...

I was viewing an earlier post about light meters and thought I would take it a little deeper for those of you that don't know what a light meter is or how they work. If you're thinking about running out and spending money on something you may or may not need, read my long winded novel on this subject first and then you decide...

Please forgive me if you all find a few type errors, I tend to have a few here and there from time to time but so far everyone figures out what I mean....

Here we go!

Hand-held light meters are not relied on as much as they used to be. Digital photography and the LCD preview monitor on most cameras has made it easy to quickly evaluate the effects of lighting, and changes in lighting, in a scene without the use of an external light meter. However, a light meter can still be a valuable tool for certain types of photography, including studio work with strobes where it can help maintain lighting consistency and aid in determining specific lighting ratios. Even where off-camera metering isn’t technically necessary, some photographers prefer to use a light meter according to their working style.

NOTE:
Something to remember is that the LCD display on your camera previews in most cases, a little brighter than the actual exposure really is and more so on some of the lower end DSLR cameras on the market today. Some of the units will let you adjust the brightness of the display and some don't.

Never rely on the LCD display for your exposure, learn to relay on the cameras histogram reading if it has one. Another point to remember is that the display always previews your image in JPEG format no matter what, even shooting in RAW format!

For those who are unfamiliar with these devices, a light meter (or exposure meter) is a tool used for measuring light and calculating exposure settings for photography. Light meters are very helpful when using cameras that don’t have working exposure meters, in film photography where instant image previews aren’t available, and in studio work, especially where strobe lighting is used.

(Two Types Of Metering)

Light meters usually allow measurements to be taken in two general modes: Reflected Metering and Incident Metering.

Reflected (or Reflective)

This mode of metering is essentially the same as what the camera’s internal light meter does. The light meter measures the light being reflected off the scene or subject from the perspective of the camera. The area being measured can be large which will give you an average reading. By placing the meter closer to smaller areas of the scene, the meter will measure those smaller areas individually giving you similar functionality to a camera’s spot metering.

I personally don’t use an external light meter for reflected metering when shooting with a camera with a built-in meter as I find it redundant.

(Incident)

This mode of metering is not available in the camera. The light meter measures the light that is striking the scene or subject, not the light that is being reflected off the subject. In other words, it measures the light coming from the light source directly.
This is useful for flash/strobe photography. It allows you to measure the light coming from individual light sources, or the combination of more than one light source. When using a light meter in Incident mode, a white dome-like surface covers the meter’s lens. This allows the meter to read light coming in from a wide angle.

The Meter Is Accurate, Not Perfect...

Something to keep in mind is that whether you’re using a hand-held light meter, or relying on the one in your camera, metering does have its limitations. Most importantly, light meters are calibrated to assume they are metering for a standard, middle-of-the-road tone and reflectance, but not all subjects and scenes fit neatly into that category. If your subject is an even gray or something similarly neutral, no problem.

You’ll get a very accurate suggestion for your camera settings. However, if your subject is mostly very dark, or light, the light meter will provide you with exposure settings that will render the blacks as too light, or the whites as too dark, respectively. The light meter should be thought of as an accurate point of reference from which to base your final exposure settings.

(Using A Light Meter)

Of course, you should consult the documentation for your model of light meter to learn how to use it for your needs. But, I’ll give you the general idea here:

As stated earlier, I don’t find much reason to use my light meter for reflected metering. I know some photographers who swear by it for their style of shooting and that's fine, to each his own.

Start by making sure your light meter is set to Reflected metering mode. To get an average measurement for exposure, just stand near the camera and point the light meter’s lens (without the dome cover) toward the scene and click the measuring button. If the scene is not too bright or too dim, the meter will give you a suggested Aperture and/or Shutter Speed setting based on the ISO setting you’ve provided. Of course, you can adjust one or more of the settings up or down to get different corresponding settings for the same exposure. You then just have to adjust your camera settings to match the suggestions provided by the light meter to get the suggested exposure.

Incident light metering, used with flash photography, places the meter not at the location of the camera, but at the location of the subject.

Start by making sure your light meter is set to Incident metering mode. Metering is achieved by placing the light dome cover over the meter’s lens, holding the light meter very near the subject, and pointing it back toward the camera. Clicking the measuring button will tell the meter to wait for a flash of light, which it will measure when you set off the strobe(s). What you’re attempting to measure is the light at the point where you’re holding the meter. Depending on where you place your meter, you’re trying to get an idea of how the light is affecting your subject and other areas of the image, including the background.

Assuming a portrait setup with a key light, a fill light, a hair light, and one additional light on the background, an example of using a light meter in the studio might go like this:

(I) The photographer places the meter near the subject’s face, pointing the light dome mostly in the direction of the key light and triggers the flash. The meter reads “8.0? for an ISO of 100 (shutter speed is not really an issue here). However, the photographer wants to use an aperture of f/5.6, so he dials the key light’s power down one stop, takes another reading which does say, “5.6? this time.

(II) Since the photographer is looking for the fill light to be one stop less than the key light, the meter is now aimed toward the fill light when the strobes are fired. The combination of distance from subject to light source, and the power setting on the light source is giving a reading of “4.0? on the meter, which is right on the money. No changes are necessary.

(III) The hair light, which should be a little hotter than the main light is measured next giving a reading of “16? which is three stops higher than the main light. The photographer wants good highlights in the hair, but this is probably too much. The hair light’s power is adjusted down to give a reading of “9? (f/9) on the meter which will give some nice bright highlights in the hair (technically an overexposed area of the image).

(IV) Finally, the photographer holds the meter against the background at an area where the background light strikes the backdrop to take a reading. With any final adjustments, the photographer now knows the relationship between all the lights and and can use this knowledge to avoid spending a lot of time in trial and error testing.

It's like haveing your very own crystal ball predicting the future outcome of the shot, very cool!

You can see how this can be helpful in maintaining a consistent look or quickly achieving a desired lighting ratio. For photographers who need to get their portrait lighting setup quickly, a light meter is indispensable. I should note that some photographers prefer not to point the meter directly at the light source to take measurements, so use whatever method works best for you.

Of course, a light meter isn’t always necessary, even when using strobes on manual settings. My usual setup is so simple and standardized that I usually only need to take a couple of test shots to know I have it all working. But if I am using a different setup, with several lights, and need to maintain a consistent look for several subjects, I’m going to use a light meter every time.

If you're all wondering what light meter I use when I use it, It's the Sekonic Digital Master L-758DR. I like this unit because It can be calibrated and store (3) different lens setups. This unit is a little more complicated to setup when it comes to the calibration part and you will need a firm understanging of how the entire process works. This meter is a little Pricey when you add the calibration target, close to $800.00 or so...

In closing, if you can afford a good light meter, go for it. Just pointing the thing and taking readings will help you understand how ISO, Aperture and Shutter Speeds all work together. Remember, there is only one correct exposure but many different combinations to get there...

Reply
Mar 10, 2012 16:01:45   #
randymoe
 
OK I'll bite.

I bought the same Sekonic L-758DR several years ago when I had more cake. I don't use PW's so I wasted money on the radio.

I seldom use it as it disagrees with my D7000 metering. I am also learning to use a Mamiya RB 67 and a couple of 4 x 5's.

I now check the Sekonic spot meter readings with the D7000 and find quite a difference. An unusable difference.

I have taken to shooting a manual D7000 image until I get what I want, as you described. Then I shoot the manual film cameras with the D7000 settings. Good images.

I also have tried reflective metering and found it even worse.

Keep in mind these are studio shots, some existing room lighting and some speed light. I am using multiple manual cameras with different shutters. I find my NOS RB67 shutters to be right on and my 4 x 5 shutter agrees with the RB 67 and D7000.

I have also tried the Sekonic on daylight shooting. Once again not even close.

I just shot 4 rolls of film outside. 4 different ancient cameras. I left the D7000 and Sekonic behind. I used Sunny Sixteen rules and played around.

The Grey Baby 4x4 Rollei with 30 year old Ektachrome 127. Half usable images the rest black with sticky shutter under 1/15.

A Welta (no name) 127 with the same film as above. All usable 4 x 6 images.

A Voigtlander 6 x 9 Bessa with 120 Velvia 50. Great images.

A Voigtlander Perkeo II 6 x 6 Ilford Delta 100. Again exposure success.

Obviously I can shoot in daylight in manual without metering. Most likely since I have done it since the early sixties.

I can shoot my D7000 metered anywhere.

What I cannot do is use the very expensive Sekonic L-758DR in studio or out. I have not given up on it, but am wondering what to do next.

I always set the ISO first.

I may be having sync speed issues with flash. OK.

But why will I also get unusable settings under continuous light?

Thanks for reading all this. I think I have fever brain...




designpro wrote:
Light Meters...

I was viewing an earlier post about light meters and thought I would take it a little deeper for those of you that don't know what a light meter is or how they work. If you're thinking about running out and spending money on something you may or may not need, read my long winded novel on this subject first and then you decide...

Please forgive me if you all find a few type errors, I tend to have a few here and there from time to time but so far everyone figures out what I mean....

Here we go!

Hand-held light meters are not relied on as much as they used to be. Digital photography and the LCD preview monitor on most cameras has made it easy to quickly evaluate the effects of lighting, and changes in lighting, in a scene without the use of an external light meter. However, a light meter can still be a valuable tool for certain types of photography, including studio work with strobes where it can help maintain lighting consistency and aid in determining specific lighting ratios. Even where off-camera metering isn’t technically necessary, some photographers prefer to use a light meter according to their working style.

NOTE:
Something to remember is that the LCD display on your camera previews in most cases, a little brighter than the actual exposure really is and more so on some of the lower end DSLR cameras on the market today. Some of the units will let you adjust the brightness of the display and some don't.

Never rely on the LCD display for your exposure, learn to relay on the cameras histogram reading if it has one. Another point to remember is that the display always previews your image in JPEG format no matter what, even shooting in RAW format!

For those who are unfamiliar with these devices, a light meter (or exposure meter) is a tool used for measuring light and calculating exposure settings for photography. Light meters are very helpful when using cameras that don’t have working exposure meters, in film photography where instant image previews aren’t available, and in studio work, especially where strobe lighting is used.

(Two Types Of Metering)

Light meters usually allow measurements to be taken in two general modes: Reflected Metering and Incident Metering.

Reflected (or Reflective)

This mode of metering is essentially the same as what the camera’s internal light meter does. The light meter measures the light being reflected off the scene or subject from the perspective of the camera. The area being measured can be large which will give you an average reading. By placing the meter closer to smaller areas of the scene, the meter will measure those smaller areas individually giving you similar functionality to a camera’s spot metering.

I personally don’t use an external light meter for reflected metering when shooting with a camera with a built-in meter as I find it redundant.

(Incident)

This mode of metering is not available in the camera. The light meter measures the light that is striking the scene or subject, not the light that is being reflected off the subject. In other words, it measures the light coming from the light source directly.
This is useful for flash/strobe photography. It allows you to measure the light coming from individual light sources, or the combination of more than one light source. When using a light meter in Incident mode, a white dome-like surface covers the meter’s lens. This allows the meter to read light coming in from a wide angle.

The Meter Is Accurate, Not Perfect...

Something to keep in mind is that whether you’re using a hand-held light meter, or relying on the one in your camera, metering does have its limitations. Most importantly, light meters are calibrated to assume they are metering for a standard, middle-of-the-road tone and reflectance, but not all subjects and scenes fit neatly into that category. If your subject is an even gray or something similarly neutral, no problem.

You’ll get a very accurate suggestion for your camera settings. However, if your subject is mostly very dark, or light, the light meter will provide you with exposure settings that will render the blacks as too light, or the whites as too dark, respectively. The light meter should be thought of as an accurate point of reference from which to base your final exposure settings.

(Using A Light Meter)

Of course, you should consult the documentation for your model of light meter to learn how to use it for your needs. But, I’ll give you the general idea here:

As stated earlier, I don’t find much reason to use my light meter for reflected metering. I know some photographers who swear by it for their style of shooting and that's fine, to each his own.

Start by making sure your light meter is set to Reflected metering mode. To get an average measurement for exposure, just stand near the camera and point the light meter’s lens (without the dome cover) toward the scene and click the measuring button. If the scene is not too bright or too dim, the meter will give you a suggested Aperture and/or Shutter Speed setting based on the ISO setting you’ve provided. Of course, you can adjust one or more of the settings up or down to get different corresponding settings for the same exposure. You then just have to adjust your camera settings to match the suggestions provided by the light meter to get the suggested exposure.

Incident light metering, used with flash photography, places the meter not at the location of the camera, but at the location of the subject.

Start by making sure your light meter is set to Incident metering mode. Metering is achieved by placing the light dome cover over the meter’s lens, holding the light meter very near the subject, and pointing it back toward the camera. Clicking the measuring button will tell the meter to wait for a flash of light, which it will measure when you set off the strobe(s). What you’re attempting to measure is the light at the point where you’re holding the meter. Depending on where you place your meter, you’re trying to get an idea of how the light is affecting your subject and other areas of the image, including the background.

Assuming a portrait setup with a key light, a fill light, a hair light, and one additional light on the background, an example of using a light meter in the studio might go like this:

(I) The photographer places the meter near the subject’s face, pointing the light dome mostly in the direction of the key light and triggers the flash. The meter reads “8.0? for an ISO of 100 (shutter speed is not really an issue here). However, the photographer wants to use an aperture of f/5.6, so he dials the key light’s power down one stop, takes another reading which does say, “5.6? this time.

(II) Since the photographer is looking for the fill light to be one stop less than the key light, the meter is now aimed toward the fill light when the strobes are fired. The combination of distance from subject to light source, and the power setting on the light source is giving a reading of “4.0? on the meter, which is right on the money. No changes are necessary.

(III) The hair light, which should be a little hotter than the main light is measured next giving a reading of “16? which is three stops higher than the main light. The photographer wants good highlights in the hair, but this is probably too much. The hair light’s power is adjusted down to give a reading of “9? (f/9) on the meter which will give some nice bright highlights in the hair (technically an overexposed area of the image).

(IV) Finally, the photographer holds the meter against the background at an area where the background light strikes the backdrop to take a reading. With any final adjustments, the photographer now knows the relationship between all the lights and and can use this knowledge to avoid spending a lot of time in trial and error testing.

It's like haveing your very own crystal ball predicting the future outcome of the shot, very cool!

You can see how this can be helpful in maintaining a consistent look or quickly achieving a desired lighting ratio. For photographers who need to get their portrait lighting setup quickly, a light meter is indispensable. I should note that some photographers prefer not to point the meter directly at the light source to take measurements, so use whatever method works best for you.

Of course, a light meter isn’t always necessary, even when using strobes on manual settings. My usual setup is so simple and standardized that I usually only need to take a couple of test shots to know I have it all working. But if I am using a different setup, with several lights, and need to maintain a consistent look for several subjects, I’m going to use a light meter every time.

If you're all wondering what light meter I use when I use it, It's the Sekonic Digital Master L-758DR. I like this unit because It can be calibrated and store (3) different lens setups. This unit is a little more complicated to setup when it comes to the calibration part and you will need a firm understanging of how the entire process works. This meter is a little Pricey when you add the calibration target, close to $800.00 or so...

In closing, if you can afford a good light meter, go for it. Just pointing the thing and taking readings will help you understand how ISO, Aperture and Shutter Speeds all work together. Remember, there is only one correct exposure but many different combinations to get there...
Light Meters... br br I was viewing an earlier po... (show quote)

Reply
Mar 10, 2012 16:06:30   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
[quote=randymoe]

But why will I also get unusable settings under continuous light?

Thanks for reading all this. I think I have fever brain...


All cameras are different, I had to calibrate my meter to my camera to get a real 18% grey exposure.

Reply
 
 
Mar 10, 2012 16:12:37   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
designpro wrote:
Something to keep in mind is that whether you’re using a hand-held light meter, or relying on the one in your camera, metering does have its limitations. Most importantly, light meters are calibrated to assume they are metering for a standard, middle-of-the-road tone and reflectance, but not all subjects and scenes fit neatly into that category. If your subject is an even gray or something similarly neutral, no problem.

You’ll get a very accurate suggestion for your camera settings. However, if your subject is mostly very dark, or light, the light meter will provide you with exposure settings that will render the blacks as too light, or the whites as too dark, respectively. The light meter should be thought of as an accurate point of reference from which to base your final exposure settings..
Something to keep in mind is that whether you’re u... (show quote)


I'd like to maybe clarify this part a bit.

The hand held light meter will not have any problems at all with rendering blacks or whites in a scene PROVIDED the scene's dynamic range is within the camera's ability to capture it. No matter if the subject is mostly dark or mostly light...it doesn't matter what the distribution of tones is.

No meter will fix crappy lighting be it the in-camera meter or the hand held one...the difference is that the hand held meter doesn't care what the subjects are wearing as it doesn't measure reflected light.


The other thing that I wanted to point out is that the histogram will not tell you whether you exposed correctly or not...it will only tell you if you've exceeded the camera's dynamic range or not and what the distribution of tones in the scene is.


With that aside...it was a very very good explanation!

Reply
Mar 10, 2012 16:18:37   #
designpro
 
Correct, I was merely pointing out that you are better off looking at the histogram than relying on the rear display.

rpavich wrote:
designpro wrote:
Something to keep in mind is that whether you’re using a hand-held light meter, or relying on the one in your camera, metering does have its limitations. Most importantly, light meters are calibrated to assume they are metering for a standard, middle-of-the-road tone and reflectance, but not all subjects and scenes fit neatly into that category. If your subject is an even gray or something similarly neutral, no problem.

You’ll get a very accurate suggestion for your camera settings. However, if your subject is mostly very dark, or light, the light meter will provide you with exposure settings that will render the blacks as too light, or the whites as too dark, respectively. The light meter should be thought of as an accurate point of reference from which to base your final exposure settings..
Something to keep in mind is that whether you’re u... (show quote)


I'd like to maybe clarify this part a bit.

The hand held light meter will not have any problems at all with rendering blacks or whites in a scene PROVIDED the scene's dynamic range is within the camera's ability to capture it. No matter if the subject is mostly dark or mostly light...it doesn't matter what the distribution of tones is.

No meter will fix crappy lighting be it the in-camera meter or the hand held one...the difference is that the hand held meter doesn't care what the subjects are wearing as it doesn't measure reflected light.


The other thing that I wanted to point out is that the histogram will not tell you whether you exposed correctly or not...it will only tell you if you've exceeded the camera's dynamic range or not and what the distribution of tones in the scene is.


With that aside...it was a very very good explanation!
quote=designpro Something to keep in mind is that... (show quote)

Reply
Mar 10, 2012 16:22:18   #
randymoe
 
I am getting very similar results from 6 very different cameras. I do not think individual camera calibration is the issue.

And if that is the answer. I do not know how to calibrate a Sekonic 758. I do not recall seeing that in my manual.



[quote=rpavich]
randymoe wrote:


But why will I also get unusable settings under continuous light?

Thanks for reading all this. I think I have fever brain...


All cameras are different, I had to calibrate my meter to my camera to get a real 18% grey exposure.

Reply
Mar 10, 2012 16:26:19   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
[quote=randymoe]I am getting very similar results from 6 very different cameras. I do not think individual camera calibration is the issue.

And if that is the answer. I do not know how to calibrate a Sekonic 758. I do not recall seeing that in my manual.



rpavich wrote:
randymoe wrote:


But why will I also get unusable settings under continuous light?

Thanks for reading all this. I think I have fever brain...


All cameras are different, I had to calibrate my meter to my camera to get a real 18% grey exposure.


I found it on the web somewhere but it came down to this:

Set up the camera on a known 18% grey target; fill the frame.

Set up a repeatable diffuse light source; I used a flash on an umbrella.

Meter the scene in full stops say "f/8"

Shoot 3 shots with the camera set for f/8


Pull the shots into Photoshop, desaturate to turn into greyscale and check the histo...you should have a flat histo with one sharp peak....is the peak dead center? if not...you have to bias your meter until your camera records an 18% grey dead center histo in Photoshop.

that way when you meter a scene, and you shoot it...you get what you intend to get.

For what it's worth mine had to be biased almost a fulll stop!

Reply
 
 
Mar 10, 2012 16:28:03   #
designpro
 
Let me tell you, that's a big task. I took me a few days to get it right.
Calibration is only good for the lighting setup you used at the time of calibration and the lens used.

If you have re-calibrated your meter, try to re-set to factory settings. You may be better off...


[quote=randymoe]I am getting very similar results from 6 very different cameras. I do not think individual camera calibration is the issue.

And if that is the answer. I do not know how to calibrate a Sekonic 758. I do not recall seeing that in my manual.



rpavich wrote:
randymoe wrote:


But why will I also get unusable settings under continuous light?

Thanks for reading all this. I think I have fever brain...


All cameras are different, I had to calibrate my meter to my camera to get a real 18% grey exposure.

Reply
Mar 10, 2012 16:28:41   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
designpro wrote:
Correct, I was merely pointing out that you are better off looking at the histogram than relying on the rear display.


Very true!
thanks again for taking the time this must have taken to type out.

Reply
Mar 10, 2012 16:34:53   #
designpro
 
You are very welcome...
Yeah, I think I need slapped around a bit!
Just trying to explain things based on my experience...

rpavich wrote:
designpro wrote:
Correct, I was merely pointing out that you are better off looking at the histogram than relying on the rear display.


Very true!
thanks again for taking the time this must have taken to type out.

Reply
Mar 10, 2012 16:35:25   #
randymoe
 
Thanks every one. I have started a new thread on just Sekonic 758 calibration.

Reply
 
 
Mar 10, 2012 16:36:55   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
designpro wrote:

Calibration is only good for the lighting setup you used at the time of calibration and the lens used.



Huh?

I don't think so...it's biasing the meter to match the unwanted bias of the camera.

The differential is good for all situations, the offset doesn't change.

Reply
Mar 10, 2012 16:41:09   #
designpro
 
For me in the studio, these setting hold water.
I keep one factory setting for everything else.

As said, all cameras are different..

rpavich wrote:
designpro wrote:

Calibration is only good for the lighting setup you used at the time of calibration and the lens used.



Huh?

I don't think so...it's biasing the meter to match the unwanted bias of the camera.

The differential is good for all situations, the offset doesn't change.

Reply
Mar 10, 2012 16:44:06   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
designpro wrote:
For me in the studio, these setting hold water.
I keep one factory setting for everything else.

As said, all cameras are different..



But that's just a false statement that the amount of calibration offset is only good for the specific lighting situation...

It IS true that it's only good for one camera though unless your camera's happen to be off by the same amount in the same direction.

Reply
Mar 10, 2012 16:59:47   #
designpro
 
Correct, I think you're missing my point here.
For me, When I calibrate my meter with Lens (a), if I use lens (b) things are slightly off.

That's all. If you are getting better results, Great!

This is a big issue and could go on for weeks...

rpavich wrote:
designpro wrote:
For me in the studio, these setting hold water.
I keep one factory setting for everything else.

As said, all cameras are different..



But that's just a false statement that the amount of calibration offset is only good for the specific lighting situation...

It IS true that it's only good for one camera though unless your camera's happen to be off by the same amount in the same direction.

Reply
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