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High School Photo Class - Comments Please
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Mar 18, 2015 06:04:26   #
Mr. Fixit Loc: south Jersey Shore
 
Hi All, I only shoot film, and one day you will all be back.

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Mar 18, 2015 06:57:15   #
EdM Loc: FN30JS
 
Mogul wrote:
If you find one and they have satellite campuses or on-line courses, I would be very interested. I have a market for them.


you may be disappointed, no school anywhere knows anything about that, but they will teach the coarse anyway.... great example is the computer science coarses taught 40+ years ago by schools.... they "taught" basic and cobal and you got a BS in computer science, (and a bill).... GBG

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Mar 18, 2015 07:52:01   #
sb Loc: Florida's East Coast
 
The ideal photography class would have the students use a 4x5 view camera with sheet film and a light meter. Nothing like that to force you to learn about light, exposure, and composition.

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Mar 18, 2015 08:09:04   #
EdM Loc: FN30JS
 
sb wrote:
The ideal photography class would have the students use a 4x5 view camera with sheet film and a light meter. Nothing like that to force you to learn about light, exposure, and composition.


many +++ years ago I gave my 4x5 and a lotta holders,etc (via my schoolteacher daughter) to the local HS photography teacher..... she took it home... end of that story

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Mar 18, 2015 08:11:04   #
dcampbell52 Loc: Clearwater Fl
 
Kuzano wrote:
I shoot film and digital.

The niche market for film is growing strongly.

The community college where I teach has had film classes throughout the digital revolution. Three classes per quarter and a wait list continuously.

Exposure, lighting, composition and creativity is universal to both film and digital. The film camera's are much simpler and drawing some back from digital.

I won't make any comments on whether you can make a career out of film, but some pros are still shooting film, while others are succumbing to the immediacy of digital.

I would hope the cross-over fundamentals would be taught to your granddaughter.

As far as processing goes, the chemicals and film are still available and film production is growing from it's low points of the last ten years. Kodak is still producing. Ilford from England has created a presence on the US continent. The Impossible Project is recreating Polaroid, and a Type 55 Polaroid project is starting up. Fujifilm is strong.

I keep my film costs down by buying refrigerated, recently expired film from good sellers on eBay. There are high count positive feedback sellers who do cold storage and sell nothing but film on eBay. I frequently shoot film that has been cold stored and expired for ten to fifteen years, with no color shift. 1-5 expiry is somewhat better, and current date film is also available on eBay.

I have local processing for 35mm film available locally from 5-6 processors, and I can get Medium Format film processed by Fujifilm Professional Labs, with the middle man being Walmart and the prices absolutely minimal. (more on this if you PM me)

Digital is cheaper, but film is a hobby. People spend money on hobbies.. ie golf, sailing, betting on horse races. No accounting for hobby tastes and expenditure.

Young and old alike are attending those classes.

I wouldn't expect a lot from a high school class, but there will still be more advanced classes available for film in higher education.

Daylight film processing equipment has eliminated the need for a dark room. A light tight closet for loading the tanks suffices.

I'm having a great time using the Caffenol process. That's using daylight equipment (cheap) and Folgers Instant Coffee, Washing Soda and Vitamin C to process both film and paper prints. Look it up... Caffenol. It's all over the internet.

Furthermore, I have been making a nice side income buying and selling film camera's 35mm, medium format and Large Format for the last 15 years on eBay. Activity in film camera's and prices are rising for some equipment, while serviceable equipment is dirt cheap.

I have more than paid for ALL my photographic expenses, including gear... lenses and bodies, and counting both film and digital by my selling film equipment on eBay for more than the last decade. None of my photography expenses come out of household income.

I don't deal in much digital. The depreciation on digital equipment is measured in hours, and profit in gear is not a word synonymous with selling digital cameras.

Film is not going away.... In fact, it's doing quite well.

Give the young lady your blessings and don't try to sway her direction. Her interests are not your interests. In fact, your's may need some dusting off, when digital becomes boring and that old film camera beckons.

And please read my SIG line below!!!

:mrgreen:
I shoot film and digital. br br The niche market... (show quote)


I agree with you wholeheartedly. Using film forces the photographer to work within the "confines" of the film loaded in the camera and the photographer has to adjust aperture and shutter speed in order to get the shot. The Photographer also has to have some idea prior to the shoot as to what he/she is intending to shoot in order to select the correct film ie ISO 100 ISO 200 ISO 400 Black and White Slide or Print. With digital, all the photographer has to do is adjust the camera (if the camera doesn't do it its self) . The photographer just needs to make sure the camera isn't raising the ISO before lowering the shutter or opening the aperture and suddenly the image is so noisy you can't use it. Also, with film (assuming that you do the work in a darkroom rather than send it out) you have to learn to load the reels for the tank in total darkness (or dim red or green light depending on film sensitivity), work the enlarger, dodge, burn and otherwise create an image.
With digital, if you work with Lightroom or some of the other more advanced processing software, you get to approximate the dodging, burning, cropping and other processes digitally without the feel of wet hands and chemical smell. I am one of the minority that agrees that serious photo students should learn film at some point (I think first, but many think later) in the learning experience for digital. Does it make them better photographers? I think that by them having to determine film type and speed before the shoot and work within those limitations, it teaches them how the aperture /shutter speed affect the shot. Many people that have never shot film, have difficulty understanding the relationship of ISO/ASA to the rest of the exposure triangle. But, in these days and times, I would hope that the school would have a few loaner film cameras for the students rather than forcing them to purchase and resell one. However with, as one mentioned on here, a waiting list for film classes there is probably a good market for reselling used film gear.

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Mar 18, 2015 08:17:24   #
EdM Loc: FN30JS
 
tho I am not too sure about this, someday I think disposing of used chemicals is going to come to the attention of the tree huggers and it will become a hugh problem for the individual photog... I think that is why the chems said "for prof use only" on 'em.. ?? and I have an Omega B & D for the asking on Long Island, they come with free coffee Ed

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Mar 18, 2015 08:23:43   #
RiverNan Loc: Eastern Pa
 
I don't use film...but I did
and although I never developed my own...I think there is lots to learn by doing so.

My first SLR was a VIVITAR...ISO, needled light meter, shutter speed, and aperture were the only settings...I learned THE LIGHT TRIANGLE...

I also think there is much to learn by writing essays...

check out any photo blog today and I think you will agree.

Best wait until after the class is over before passing
judgment.

OlinBost wrote:
This semester my granddaughter is taking a photo classes in high school. Last semester it was a digital class. This semester it is a film class. Part of the class deals with developing the film. Also a large part of the classes deal with long essays and not much on the camera and shooting specifics (lighting, subject, camera settings, lenses, etc).

Now: how many still use film (she is using my old Nikon N75 and I still have some film)? And how many still develop B&H or color film?

I am disappointed with what she is telling me that the teacher is teaching or rather not teaching.
This semester my granddaughter is taking a photo c... (show quote)

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Mar 18, 2015 08:33:16   #
Jcmarino
 
Wow two different posts regarding photography in schools. What are these schools doing? Sounds like all the expense is falling on the student. I was an art major and we "rented" (paid a fee) our camera equipment from the school, when the equip was outdated, they sold it to students first then offered it to the public, then they bought new updated equip for the students. Film was cheaper back in the day, not so much now. It also sounds like the gym teacher is teaching photography instead of a real photographer. I have nothing against gym teachers but I see over and over again where public schools have gym teachers teaching other subjects, because the school board feels the subject is not important or "anyone can teach that". Sorry, rant over.

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Mar 18, 2015 08:40:53   #
paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah
 
OlinBost wrote:
This semester my granddaughter is taking a photo classes in high school. Last semester it was a digital class. This semester it is a film class. Part of the class deals with developing the film. Also a large part of the classes deal with long essays and not much on the camera and shooting specifics (lighting, subject, camera settings, lenses, etc).

Now: how many still use film (she is using my old Nikon N75 and I still have some film)? And how many still develop B&H or color film?

I am disappointed with what she is telling me that the teacher is teaching or rather not teaching.
This semester my granddaughter is taking a photo c... (show quote)


Photography has changed a great deal during my lifetime and It does not appear to be going back and that may be a good thing. All of photography relates back to film. It is embedded in the process. Even though it is not used much anymore an understanding of the basic can be helpful. Photography in an art form which uses mechanical means in order to work. It is the study of recorded light and the camera achieve that recording. While an understanding of film is not totally essential if learned and applied it will prove to be of benefit. So tell her to buck up and learn it.

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Mar 18, 2015 08:52:38   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Rongnongno wrote:
A total waste of time then.

Moving on.


:thumbup:

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Mar 18, 2015 09:29:08   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
OlinBost wrote:
This semester my granddaughter is taking a photo classes in high school. Last semester it was a digital class. This semester it is a film class. Part of the class deals with developing the film. Also a large part of the classes deal with long essays and not much on the camera and shooting specifics (lighting, subject, camera settings, lenses, etc).

Now: how many still use film (she is using my old Nikon N75 and I still have some film)? And how many still develop B&H or color film?

I am disappointed with what she is telling me that the teacher is teaching or rather not teaching.
This semester my granddaughter is taking a photo c... (show quote)


Notify the superintendent of your concerns.

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Mar 18, 2015 09:32:50   #
dcampbell52 Loc: Clearwater Fl
 
Jcmarino wrote:
Wow two different posts regarding photography in schools. What are these schools doing? Sounds like all the expense is falling on the student. I was an art major and we "rented" (paid a fee) our camera equipment from the school, when the equip was outdated, they sold it to students first then offered it to the public, then they bought new updated equip for the students. Film was cheaper back in the day, not so much now. It also sounds like the gym teacher is teaching photography instead of a real photographer. I have nothing against gym teachers but I see over and over again where public schools have gym teachers teaching other subjects, because the school board feels the subject is not important or "anyone can teach that". Sorry, rant over.
Wow two different posts regarding photography in s... (show quote)


When I was in school, we provided cameras (Pentax) for our staff photographers in journalism. Photography class attendees had to provide their own cameras and film (some had 35mm others had different formats) and all had to use the journalism departments 3 darkrooms when they were not in use by journalism photographers. So yes, since the class was an elective class, everyone had to carry the expenses of their class including purchasing film, paper and a class fee for chemicals.
Note: Our school also had an aviation class which required the students to get their private pilot license in order to get an A in the class. The school had a fee for that class to even though they owned the Cessna 172 and Cessna 150 Aerobatic planes. They had to cover the cost of fuel and simulator time.

By the way, our Journalism teacher taught photography (along with the senior photographer for the staff) and in the aviation teacher also taught personal record keeping and business classes. Many teachers teach different subject, depending on how many classes are needed to meet demand. I don't think I would want to teach gym all day either... Our gym teachers taught social studies, history, physical education and were the football and basketball coaches.. The Football /PE/ Social Studies coach was also assistant principal and was the guy that had the paddle (you didn't want licks from him). :)

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Mar 18, 2015 10:06:00   #
Papa Joe Loc: Midwest U.S.
 
OlinBost wrote:
This semester my granddaughter is taking a photo classes in high school. Last semester it was a digital class. This semester it is a film class. Part of the class deals with developing the film. Also a large part of the classes deal with long essays and not much on the camera and shooting specifics (lighting, subject, camera settings, lenses, etc).

Now: how many still use film (she is using my old Nikon N75 and I still have some film)? And how many still develop B&H or color film?

I am disappointed with what she is telling me that the teacher is teaching or rather not teaching.
This semester my granddaughter is taking a photo c... (show quote)


Olin, since the first (and probably primary) course was Digital, I wonder if this course she is now taking is designed to cover more history of the field? Might help her just knowing 'from whence we came', y'think?

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Mar 18, 2015 10:20:03   #
rdgreenwood Loc: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
 
You should stop being a "helicopter grandparent" and start supporting the teacher. Your questioning undermines the teacher and weakens the experience.

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Mar 18, 2015 10:37:31   #
lightchime Loc: Somewhere Over The Rainbow
 
OlinBost wrote:
This semester my granddaughter is taking a photo classes in high school. Last semester it was a digital class. This semester it is a film class. Part of the class deals with developing the film. Also a large part of the classes deal with long essays and not much on the camera and shooting specifics (lighting, subject, camera settings, lenses, etc).

Now: how many still use film (she is using my old Nikon N75 and I still have some film)? And how many still develop B&H or color film?

I am disappointed with what she is telling me that the teacher is teaching or rather not teaching.
This semester my granddaughter is taking a photo c... (show quote)



I have shot box car loads of film. I thought it was great when, for practical purposes, that was all there was. Now I shoot digital and don't want to go back.

That said, besides being a niche, there is great value in teaching and learning film. It is not just art, it is a view and appreciation of art history. Technology has changed and film and film technology is the stepping stone that was used to build the lessons of today.

The problem seems to be that the student is not getting an insight of today by not getting an appreciation of what has gone on before.

You may be disappointed because you have failed to realize the relevance of her efforts and those of the school. As you expand your own mind, you can help your granddaughter's to grow.

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