donnahde Loc: Newark, DE

Hi all, I've heard much wisdom emanate from this group in the short months I've been a member, but I've never initiated a post. Now I could use your help. There's a position in my neck of the woods for me to provide images for a state organization whose job it is to bring people into our state. I'd be providing images of various museums, parks, restaurants, events and activities. I've already interviewed and hit it off well with all the principles and they know I already have many of the images they want in my files. The problem is their budget is fairly tight and I need to bid for this job. Does anyone have any ideas how to bid for a job like this.

I guess my main question is how can I price an image I've already taken. I will be providing the high res digital file for them to use in whatever way they need it - brochure, web, newsprint. They will have the rights to use it as they wish, but NOT to re-sell. I will continue to own the image and I can re-sell as I wish (at art shows, at my shared art venue, local stores, etc). I can also have my watermark at the bottom corner.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you'd be willing to share.

ShakyShutter Loc: Arizona

You may not be in the drivers seat on this one. It's likely they have a fixed budget for photo/art purchase. Better ask if they have a set rate or if they will purchase on a piece by piece basis.

I've never known a non-profit or visitors bureau that had a budget for photography outside the actual production of the piece in question. And it was usually low.

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

Always be sure to get recognition for all your published shots, and try to get the contract to have a time limit for their useage, like a one year period. If they want to use a shot for the next years promos, they can pay for it again. The name recognition for selling shots like that can be worth far more than the actual price you were paid for them.

donnahde Loc: Newark, DE

Thanks for your thoughts, ShakyShutter. They gave me a list three pages long of what they need. I wish they would tell me what moneys they have so that I could then fashion my bid around that. Flying blind is very frustrating! It is something I want because I could, with some exceptions, do it on my own time and still have time to work my business.

donnahde Loc: Newark, DE

Thanks, MT Shooter. A time limit is something I had not thought of! I've already addressed the recognition on the images themselves but I also want to have my name/company listed on their staff page as well. I forgot to list that. Thanks!!

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

Being listed as "Staff" could get sticky. Images from "Staff" could be construed to mean they are owned by the organization. Your listing should state something about being the "Contract" photographer, or "Independent". I did a series of shots for a NRA brochure once and got the recognition under each image as well as a line in the organizational contacts area as the "Contract Photographer"

donnahde Loc: Newark, DE

Excellent point, MT. Thanks!!

unclebe1 Loc: NYC & Wellington, FL

So. what you need to figure is a range that, at the low end is the least acceptable amount you are willing to take and, at the high end, would be well worth your time. One way to get a 'handle' on it might be to take the list and seriously estimate the time it would take you to shoot all of it from scratch. Multiply by what you consider a minimum wage and add in $.42 per mile for travel compensation. At the other end, use an hourly wage that you consider would represent well compensated time and again do the math. You now have a reasonable range. This is a negotiation, so provdie the organization with a figure near the upper end and see what they come back to you with. You already have a rapport with the organization and they know you have many of the shots in the bag. It sounds unlikely that they will just walk away from the table if your request is too high. They should keep communications open and come back with their 'budget' or expected cost. If it's within your range, you're good to go. Alternatively, if you desparately want the job, and are afraid they won't get back to you (not a good way to view your value) start with a figure nearer the low end.

Just my 2 cents of process. Good luck.

donnahde Loc: Newark, DE

Thanks, Unclebe1. I appreciate your advice. It looks like they'll want about 1200 images per year. Some are ones that I take when I attend various events anyway. Others may take several visits to get the right light, right mix of people, etc. So I'm thinking about providing an average of 100 images per month. Some months will be much more, depending on events in the area. Some much less or none. So I'm coming up with a regular monthly stipend so that I can then have some kind of regular income to count on, buy health insurance with, etc.

Funny thing about all this is that they need people in most of their images and keeping people OUT of the shots has been my method of operation for years!

Go figure! Thanks again for your input.

snowbear

You may want to consider whether they expect an exclusive or non-exclusibe license, or if they want to obtain copyright to the images.

donnahde Loc: Newark, DE

I answered that above but will reiterate. Ownership of the images would remain mine but I would grant them full use rights - print or web - but NOT re-sale. I would have the rights to sell any images I take.

I'm almost done with my proposal. I will post and welcome feedback.

donnahde Loc: Newark, DE

Forgot to say thanks for jumping in, Snowbear! Is your son at DCAD here in Wilmington now?

donnahde Loc: Newark, DE

Ok, folks, this is what I've come up with. Feedback welcome. I have an idea of their budget and am submitting above it. I believe they will negotiate with me but wouldn't it be nice if they simply accepted this? (-:

Proposal for Photographic Services for XXXXXXXX

Perfect Moments Photography to receive $2500/mo in exchange for average of 100 images per month – some months may be much more than 100, other months less depending on scheduled events. Images beyond 100 per month are available starting at $25 each, ie if already in my archives.

Perfect Moments Photography to have membership in XXXXX for purpose of purchasing healthcare insurance

Perfect Moments Photography to have two or more credentials/tickets, etc. for appropriate access to various venues and events for best photographic angles – more credentials required because certain events may require more than one photographer to cover adequately, hold lights, reflectors, etc.

Perfect Moments Photography reserves the right to substitute a qualified photographer for any particular event but Perfect Moments Photography will be ultimately responsible for the final product.

Perfect Moments Photography to regularly provide CDs of full resolution images, granting full print or online publication rights to the XXXXXX, but no re-sale rights. Ownership of images and re-sale rights remain with Perfect Moments Photography.

“Image provided by Perfect Moments Photography” or “Perfect Moments Photography” is to appear in some form on each image. Not knowing how images will be re-sized or cropped makes it impossible for PMP to properly watermark each image.

Recognition of Perfect Moments Photography as independent or contract photographer will appear in publications.

Mileage allowance.

****************

Obviously my preference would be to be a staff photographer at $75K per year or more with full benefits and mileage allowance because I know what my photographic services are worth, but I understand that this is not an option at this time. The above proposition is something that will allow me to provide the needs, as I understand them, of the XXXXXXX, provide my company with a dependable stream of revenue, and allow me the flexibility and exposure to continue to build the business.

donnahde Loc: Newark, DE

Just an fyi...I decided NOT to limit the length of time the images could be used for two reasons. One, I think it would be very difficult to keep track of and legislate - for them and for me. And two, why would I want them to come down when they're promoting me??

snowbear

No, he graduates from high school this year. We were up there for a visit and his portfolio review.

I did see that you retain copyright; it just didn't sink in when I was typing.