Ersten Loc: Concord, CA

I use Canon's DPP to process my RAW photos. When I use the "Sharpness" tool and move the slider to the right, there is very little difference that I can see in an increase in sharpness. After I convert the sharpened photo to a JPEG, the photo still does not look any sharper. However, when I again use DPP to sharpen this JPEG, the clarity is obvious as I move the slider to the right, and the photo looks much sharper. I use a 70D and use "Landscape" for my Picture Style. It doesn't matter what lens I use. The results are always the same. I don't print my photos, so I can't comment on a comparison of a JPEG's sharpness between the first sharpening and the second one. Is there a way around this predicament? It's not an efficient use of time to have to sharpen a photo twice.

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

I can't tell for certain, but...

When you are saving the JPEG image the first time in DPP are you reducing the number of pixels? If the first attempt to "Sharpen" is with a full sized out of the camera image, but the second is adjusting a sized for the web image, you can expect a huge difference.

Sharpen depends on the pixel dimensions. So a value that is just barely visible with a 6000x4000 24MP image will be way beyond acceptable if used on a 600x400 image meant to post here on UHH.

And if you do reduce images to a suitable size for the web, yes you have to apply Sharpen after the size is reduced. Virtually all of the sharpening done at a larger size is removed in the process of resampling to a smaller pixel dimension.

Ersten Loc: Concord, CA

Apaflo,

I save JPEGs a full resolution. I contacted Canon, and the rep said that the sharpness tool does little to improve the image, but working on the JPEG is more dramatic. I guess I'll just do the sharpening on JPEGs and skip that step when working in RAW. He also suggested using "Standard" as the Picture Style.

thanks,
Ersten

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Ersten - there's a few unstated details in your question. First, when working with the RAW file, what picture style are you using? You mention the 70D body, but not what lens. A very sharp lens will require less sharpening of the resulting file. I thought there was a chart of the settings in the various picture styles, but the EOS manual I just looked at has only descriptions. The standard style defaults to sharpness = 3 and landscape is sharpness = 4 (with other changes in saturation).

I sometimes tweak standard to a sharpness = 4 in DPP, but more often not. So the question is, do you need something higher than the 4 setting? I'm not disagreeing with not seeing a difference but questioning whether a difference is needed in the output from an original RAW?

This is somewhat a hard discussion to hold via postings to a discussion board without both the RAW file and the processed output. But, giving up on RAW I think isn't quite the direction to take without a more detailed understanding of DPP and the larger RAW editing process...

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

Perhaps you are new to this. There is a tendency for those new to PP to over apply things like sharpening, contrast and saturation It's sounds like you are expecting a huge difference as you apply sharpening. That's not the case. The controls are subtle as you sharpen in DPP, as it should be. I use the unsharp mask myself. I can see subtle differences as I increase from one value to the next. View some very detailed part of your images at 200% and play with the sharpening or unsharp mask and you should see obvious differences.

Ersten Loc: Concord, CA

When using DPP, the sharpness changes shown on RAW are subtle when compared to JPEGs. I guess I prefer more sharpness on my images than others. I went and reread the DPP instructions, and found the way to apply the sharpening of one photo to any or all photos of a set. The danger is that oversharpening can ruin images, so I set the sharpening slider to about 60% to the right, and that seems to make my photos acceptably sharp.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

Since each photograph should require only the sharpening appropriate to that shot, I'm curious how you came up with a standard amount to apply equally to all your photographs. I'm glad you are happy with the results, but I'm guessing that many if not most of your images are over sharpened, which, besides adding noise and sharpening halos, can be inappropriate for the subject and make the results look less professional.

lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA

I have no idea how similar or dissimilar the two programs would be but I process my Pentax DNG Raw files with the Adobe Camera Raw editor from Photoshop CS6 and I have to zoom in about 200% to actually see the sharpness being changed. Normally I don't even look as I have a pretty good idea of where I want my sliders. I only work with JPGs for printing or Web publishing, otherwise I keep everything as PSD or TIF files.

Are Styles even applied in your camera if you shoot in Raw?

fuzzypaddle Loc: Southern Illinois

The only time camera settings such as "Landscape" have any effect, in camera, on the image taken is if you are shooting in jpeg mode.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

Adobe products ignore in camera settings like picture styles, including sharpening, contrast, saturation, peripheral illumination (vignetting control), , etc. However Canon's DPP does not ignore them, and they become the starting point for adjustment. When you review a raw file in DPP it will look exactly like a Jpeg version SOOC with in camera sharpening as well as all the other settings applied, rather than the somewhat flat, dull unsharpened starting point in CS5 or LR. I think to OP is still confused about sharpening in general and how to use DPP to get the best out of it. The advise he got from Canon was misunderstood in the context of proper sharpening. I think he is most probably way over sharpening, but he seems to be happy with the results

Ersten Loc: Concord, CA

My understanding is that Picture Styles are applied in RAW, but can be converted to any other PS in DPP with a few exceptions, just like white balance can be changed.

I now use a universal sharpening scale for my photos because they all appear to be better than the unsharpened images. I don't notice any additional noise or halo appearances at the print size that these photos will eventually be shown at in my photobooks. If I were to do an enlargement to hang on a wall (which I have yet to do), I would certainly revisit these photos to do a custom touch up.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

You do realize your raw images are not unsharpened in DPP, correct? They will have identical sharpening to your jpegs SOOC. You can add additional sharpening to raw images in either of the first two tabs in DPP, unlike jpegs where the raw tab is greyed out. If you need that much sharpening though, I wonder if your lenses or your technique could be an issue. You are the first person I've heard of to complain about raw sharpening in DPP.

Ersten Loc: Concord, CA

I guess the bottom line is that I am happy with applying sharpening to all my JPEGs instead of using it straight from a RAW conversion that I did or did not sharpen. Thanks to everyone who responded. I think we can put this issue to bed now.