fjrwillie Loc: MA

Currently I am shooting in both JPG and RAW. The jpg gives me instant results after downloading to the computer, versus having to convert the NEF files. Most of the time I am using the jpg file, however when there is a extra special picture I will go back to the NEF file convert to TIFF and then PP on this

With that said, I have read you can extract a jpg file from the NEF files. At least I think I read that. Is this extraction process the same jpg file when shooting in both.

My sense is NO, but I figured I would ask.

TIA
Willie

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

While there is no actual JPG image "embedded" within the .NEF file, there are lots of different software choices out there to give you a viewable JPG version of that NEF file. Any RAW image is not directly viewable and must have a certain amount of processing to view the image represented by that RAW file. There are even some software programs that will give you a processed JPG thumbnail that claim to be the "embedded" JPG, but in truth they are simply making a quickly processed JPG from that RAW file so you may view a sample of what it could look like when processed. The JPG image your camera saves is a fully processed JPG done in-camera as per the selected JPG processing parameters you, or the factory, has set for that purpose. The RAW (.nef) file is nothing more than 1's and 0's until it has been processed by software of your choice.

peterg Loc: Santa Rosa, CA

According to a blog (http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/1704603), there are two jpegs in a NEF file, a small thumbnail 375x570 and a larger file 2848x4288. I have not verified this. There are utilities that can extract those jpegs. Example: http://echoone.com/filejuicer/ . There is a free trial version of File Juicer.
You may also want to see if when importing a NEF file into an iPad, whether you're looking at a converted NEF image or the embedded jpeg.

I downloaded & launched File Juicer. The NEF photo was 4928 x 3280 pixels. File Juicer extracted two JPEGs, one at 1080 x 1632 pixels and a second with 375 x 570 pixels. While these may be good for previewing, they may not be good enough for quality use. I also wonder if there is any time saved over importing into a post-processing application and exporting JPEGs that were created from the raw image.

Capture48 Loc: Arizona

Rubbish, there are no JPG's embedded in a RAW file. This is kind of like saying "There is an artist in every one of us" A RAW file is just that (data). Your camera (if you shoot in JPEG) does a conversion in camera. Or you can in Lightroom for example either on import, or export convert to JPEG, but then you don't have the benefit of the processing the camera has done, and you will need to do some PP on the file.

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

As I stated before, there is no JPG already embedded in RAW files, you need a software program to convert the data to JPG format. Filejuicer is just such a software program. Even Windows will allow you to view thumbnails of RAW files with the proper Codec for the camera you are using. That thumbnail is no more than a very small converted JPG so you may see what is in that image before opening it.

Capture48 Loc: Arizona

MT, are you sure about this? I've always assumed the codec or program for reading the RAW file is creating that thumbnail, like the camera does, like LR does.

Say it ain't so. Not sure why I am questioning you just want to be sure I put this in my "something learned" column today

Capture48 Loc: Arizona

Sorry MT, I misread your post

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

The Codec allows Windows to convert the RAW file to a JPG thumbnail via Windows Photo Viewer software. The Codec is nothing more than a "key" to allow Windows to make that conversion.

peterg Loc: Santa Rosa, CA

I'm no expert on this. But when I Google this subject, there are many references that state that raw files have embedded jpegs. Perhaps, you are right and all the others are wrong. As Abe Lincoln said "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."
:)

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

There is a LOT of info on the internet talking about "embedded" JPG files in RAW formats, that is true. But every link will send you to a software program that will "extract" that JPG. If it indeed were a JPG file, your computer would allow direct viewing of it, which it will not without the proper Codec to allow for conversion.
"Embedded" and "Extract" could easily be construed to mean the entire JPG file, since the JPG is always there, albeit in the digital 1's and 0's of the RAW data file. You can "extract" that image simply by PROCESSING the RAW with software. But until the RAW has had that processing, there is no JPG to view.

peterg Loc: Santa Rosa, CA

You may be right. However, I suspect when you look at a (raw) photo on your camera's LCD screen, you are probably looking at an embedded jpeg, not the raw or a jpeg that was converted each time you viewed the photo. Suppose, you reduced the size of your photos on your LCD so you could see many tiny thumbnails. Do you think that the camera converted a dozen raw images to jpegs every time you scrolled to see more photos?
A reference to embedded jpegs is in a Nikon School document ( http://static.nikonusa.com/pdf/nikonschool/sun.pdf) when it describes Photo Mechanic. Quote: "Widely considered one of the best (most powerful) commercial image browsers, Photo Mechanic is used to download, add metadata and organize images by many professional photographers. One of its strengths is that it gets its preview from the embedded JPEG that exists inside most RAW files. Nikon NEF files, and most other RAW files, have a highly-compressed JPEG embedded inside them to provide fast previews. "

Another reference to embedded jpeg(s) in a Nikon NEF file is http://lclevy.free.fr/nef/ . This link describes the NEF file structure. Quote: "The NEF RAW format from Nikon is used to store digital picture produced by their digital camera.
"This format is based on TIFF format and usually has 2 subIFDs, the first one to store the full image in lossy jpeg, the second one for the full RAW image lossless compressed." It also lists the file offsets, lengths, resolution, etc. for the "lossy jpeg".

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

Photo Mechanic is just another conversion software program that you can buy ($150). Nikons all come with free software called View NX2 that views the files also, but View NX2 will view the converted JPG in exactly the same way as your Nikon camera would have converted it. When viewing in-camera NEF files on the LGD, that's also what you are looking at, a converted JPG image. The JPG conversion in-camera takes only milliseconds so it appears almost immediately. All other software out there makes that JPG conversion based on its proprietary conversion parameters. That's why the end result can vary so widely. Doing RAW conversion yourself always results in better images if done diligently by the photographer.

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Typical NEF files have at least two or more "actual" JPEG images embedded in an NEF file.

With a Nikon D4, for example, there are three embedded JPEG images in each NEF file. One is full size at 4928x3280, one is 1632x1080, and one is 570x375.

The full sized embedded image is low quality JPEG that is a smaller file size than "JPEG Basic".


In fact they are displaying the embedded JPEG, which can be extracted in the blink of an eye (even faster that the entire raw sensor data set can be read in, much less processed).


The raw sensor data is just data, not an image. But the RAW file (.nef) does include processed JPEG images.

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

I see a lot of claims, but no proof nor images.

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Get exiftool by Phil Harvey. It will show you how many embedded images (JPEG and others) there are. And it can extract them too. What it cannot do is convert the raw sensor data to a JPEG file.