EnglishBrenda Loc: Kent, England

I am quite confused about this. If I take a photo of a really small bug at 1:1, it is small on the sensor and small in the photo and an uninspiring looking post. So if I want to display it as a true macro photo, what are my limitations for cropping? I understand a photo taken at 1:2 can be cropped to 1:1 (is that 50% or 100% crop?) and still be correct but what about a 1:1?

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

Brenda, have you not been told that there are questions that should not be asked in church or in the discussions of photography.

In my naive period, having seen all of the comparisons of cameras and lenses at 100% crop I made the mistake of asking my self, Don, what exactly is 100% crop??? I did not find one explanation... no I found many.

Macro... 1:1... OK, good. The image should be as big as the item photographed.. well of course we do not photograph the empire-state bldg 1:1.. OK... not a Macro. But considering I use my Panasonic ZS20 with a 1/2.33" sensor.. well... that 1:1 is possible only for bed bugs.. luckily I do not have any or many.

Macro is August theme in CClub.. OK.. so I read.. watch hour long video.. buy extension tube for my DSLR that is really a Multi Lens camera .. not Single. Any way, the more I read the less informed I am.. one place said small sensors are better because they give greater magnification for the same lens... Bull... they only see part of the image of the lens. Most avoid any mention of what the H the reality of a 1:1 really is... and this 100% crop thing???

I will patiently wait for N..72 and CptnC to give you (and me) a clear mathematicaly robust definitive answer. And beware of the "authoritarian" UHH-ians who must always be authorities pulling answers from orifices normally reserved for flatulence.

PS: after working with my lenses and all that education, I think my best bet will be extension tubes Sony/M42 and my old 1972, 40+ year old, heavy cast-iron 200 mm M42 prime lens. Virtue: ring for f stop, ring for focus and of course, long working distance. The focus ring will allow me to put a lever on it and thus have very tight control.. perhaps with a 1/32 thread which move the focus ring 1/32" for one rovolution of the thumb nut... this control will provide precise control for multi shots for use of an image stacking program. This is a mind-experiment, but quite do-able. (of course table top macros)

EnglishBrenda Loc: Kent, England

Thanks for taking the trouble to answer as fully as you have. I am so glad I am not the only to be confused. I am also glad that you don't have many bed bugs although I would like to photograph one - haha. Yes, lets wait for N72, there is nothing he cannot help with.

[quote=dpullum]Brenda, have you not been told that there are questions that should not be asked in church or in the discussions of photography.

clicktime Loc: Yucca Valley Ca.

Hi Linda I think what you are asking is if you have to restrict your image to 1:1. No you don't you can always go larger, up to 10:1 and still stay in the macro range anything bigger then that is micro. I think the higher magnification is the way to go as long as you get the entire insect or subject in the frame. Sometimes the background is very important as well.

EnglishBrenda Loc: Kent, England

Hi clicktime, thanks for commenting. My query is, can you consider a large crop of a tiny subject as still being a true macro or is a true macro taken at 1:1 (or better) only permitted to have a token crop for presentation purposes. Tiny subjects, I suspect, would do better with a lens capable of going between 1:1 and 10:1. I think this may be a controversial subject.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

[quote=clicktime]Hi Linda I think what you are asking is if you have to restrict your image to 1.1. "

1:1 as measured how... on sensor... after PP.... as printed on 4x6 or on a bill board...
I think the definition is a bit quick silver-ish.... with lots of er and wells. My background is science and the conditions of measurement are defined and glued down.... again if I take any photo on a small sensor it is never 1:1, but I can crop and print on big paper or put on 50" HDTV and wow more than 1:1!!

Yes back-gound makes a difference... will find a ref for that... Macro edu that I watched is about 1 hr long on net... great...
http://www.picturecorrect.com/tips/intro-to-macro-photography/

Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan

I think cropping and shooting at 1:1 are two separate issues. If it was taken at 1:1 or greater it is a macro, cropped or not. That is my understanding.

Mike

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

Technical macro-photographers use the following guidelines:
Close-up photography = 1:10 magnification (1/10 life-size) to nearly 1:1 mag (life-size);
Macro-photography = 1:1 magnification (life-size) to 10:1 mag (10x life-size);
Micro-photography (usually requiring a microscope) = 10:1 magnification (10x life-size) and all higher mags.

EnglishBrenda Loc: Kent, England

So Douglass where does cropping come into this?

If I shoot a tiny bug can I crop it sufficiently to bring out the detail and still call it a true macro or does one need to use higher magnification lens combinations to avoid a lot of cropping in order for it to be true macro?

I know for personal perusal it doesn't matter but I just want to be clear about this when I post photos.

Thanks in advance. I have done a search for information but there seems to be a few conflicting views.

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

Remember that a true macro-photograph taken with:
a 4x5-inch film camera will nearly capture your full hand;
a 6x6-cm film camera will nearly capture all four fingers;
a full frame (36-mm x 24-mm) DSLR will capture two finger tips; and
an APS-C sensor (24-mm x 16-mm) DSLR will capture a single finger tip.

Working with my APS-C sensor camera, I will quite often shoot at 1:1 or near 1:1, then post process crop to enlarge detail. This technique allows deeper DoF, than using extension tubes, or add-on lenses, or a specialty lens like the Canon 65-mm (capable of 1x to 5x mag).

Here are recent examples of original 1:1 capture, and cropping to higher magnification.

Approximately 1:1 mag (life-size)

(Download)

Approximately 5:1 mag (5x life-size) post cropping

(Download)

EnglishBrenda Loc: Kent, England

Thanks Douglass, I will go away and digest all this.

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

Another hint: Accept macro advice ONLY from photographers who post macro-photographs. Advice without proven experience is only conjecture.

EnglishBrenda Loc: Kent, England

:thumbup: :thumbup:

martinfisherphoto Loc: Lake Placid Florida

Wh Wh What???

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

I stated: " Accept macro advice ONLY from photographers who post macro-photographs. Advice without proven experience is only conjecture.". Do you disagree? One reason this forum is so strong, is that unsupported opinions or instruction are not treated like fact. You, and several other macro-photographers, provide ample photographic proof of your experience & knowledge. Anyone with an opinion contrary to what we try to teach here, needs to support their opinions with photographic examples, not just rhetoric.