Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
Ron Johnson's political stunt against ACA and Obama administraion turns into major fail.
Page 1 of 2 next>
Jul 22, 2014 09:05:21   #
Ambrose Loc: North America
 
Sen. Ron Johnson thought he’d come up with a great idea: he’d file a lawsuit against the Affordable Care Act.
Yesterday, in a development that was arguably even more important than it appears at first blush, a federal judge threw out the case.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/ron-johnson-obamacare-lawsuit-109204.html

Are you listening Mr. Boehner?

Reply
Jul 22, 2014 09:29:18   #
dljen Loc: Central PA
 
Ambrose wrote:
Sen. Ron Johnson thought he’d come up with a great idea: he’d file a lawsuit against the Affordable Care Act.
Yesterday, in a development that was arguably even more important than it appears at first blush, a federal judge threw out the case.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/ron-johnson-obamacare-lawsuit-109204.html

Are you listening Mr. Boehner?


These people are so out-of-touch. Don't they realize that their constituents want them to work instead of filing petty, nonsensical lawsuits? They're congesting the courts further with this. Johnson probably thought this was a slam dunk when he found out that the judge was appointed by GWB. Ha!

Reply
Jul 22, 2014 09:33:25   #
mwalsh Loc: Houston
 
There is a certain irony in Mr. Boehner moving to sue POTUS for not enforcing components of the ACA... a law that the House has voted to repeal, how many times now... I am not defending POTUS on this issue. But Boehner's threat does smack of a certain hypocrisy (irony was the wrong word.)

Reply
 
 
Jul 22, 2014 23:04:55   #
Ambrose Loc: North America
 
mwalsh wrote:
There is a certain irony in Mr. Boehner moving to sue POTUS for not enforcing components of the ACA... a law that the House has voted to repeal, how many times now... I am not defending POTUS on this issue. But Boehner's threat does smack of a certain hypocrisy (irony was the wrong word.)


:thumbup:

Reply
Jul 23, 2014 00:01:49   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
You guys should be much more concerned about the DC district ruling today, even though an opposite ruling came out of the 4th district only hours later. If the DC District ruling is upheld by the SCOTUS it will effectively end Obamacare and force the dems to re-legislate it while giving the republicans a meaningful seat at the table....

Before you get all huffy and start telling me why the ruling was a bad ruling, or why you think that SCOTUS will uphold the IRS regulations let me allow a respected constitutional scholar to put my argument forward for me.

Quote:
When the Administration’s witnesses raised the lower court win in Halbig during the last hearing, I cautioned the Committee to wait to see what was coming because I doubted that the D.C. Circuit would agree with the trial court on its statutory interpretation. As discussed earlier, Halbig challenges the massive federal subsidies in the form of tax credits made available to people with financial need who enroll in the program. In crafting the act, Congress created incentives for states to set up health insurance exchanges and disincentives for them to opt out. The law, for example, made the subsidies available only to those enrolled in insurance plans through exchanges “established by the state.”

But despite that carrot — and to the great surprise of the administration — some 34 states opted not to establish their own exchanges, leaving it to the federal government to do so. This left the White House with a dilemma: If only those enrollees in states that created exchanges were eligible for subsidies, a huge pool of people would be unable to afford coverage, and the entire program would be in danger of collapse.

Indeed, the Halbig plaintiffs — individuals and small businesses in six states that didn’t establish state exchanges — objected that, without the tax credits, they could have claimed exemption from the individual mandate penalty because they would be deemed unable to pay for the coverage. If the courts agree with them, the costs would go up in all 34 states that didn’t establish state exchanges, and the resulting exemptions could lead to a mass exodus from Obamacare.

The administration attempted to solve the problem by simply declaring that even residents of states without their own exchanges were eligible for subsidies, even though the law seemed to specifically say they were not. The administration argues that although the statute’s language does limit subsidies to residents of places with exchanges “established by the state,” that wording actually referred to any exchange, including those established by the federal government. In January, a district court judge upheld that interpretation, allowing the subsidies to continue.

The D.C. Circuit rejected the statutory interpretation of the Administration as well as its argument that the actual language of the law would lead to absurd results:

From Opinion wrote:
The fact is that the legislative record provides little indication one way or the other of congressional intent, but the statutory text does. Section 36B plainly makes subsidies available only on Exchanges established by states. And in the absence of any contrary indications, that text is conclusive evidence of Congress’s intent. Cf. Ethyl Corp. v. EPA, 51 F.3d 1053, 1063 (D.C. Cir. 1995) (“At best, the legislative history is cryptic, and this surely is not enough to overcome the plain meaning of the statute.”). To hold otherwise would be to say that enacted legislation, on its own, does not command our respect—an utterly untenable proposition.
The fact is that the legislative record provides l... (show quote)


The court acknowledges that this decision will rock the ACA at its foundations but says that it must protect congressional authority against executive over-reach:

From Opinion wrote:
We reach this conclusion, frankly, with reluctance. At least until states that wish to can set up Exchanges, our ruling will likely have significant consequences both for the millions of individuals receiving tax credits through federal Exchanges and for health insurance markets more broadly. But, high as those stakes are, the principle of legislative supremacy that guides us is higher still. Within constitutional limits, Congress is supreme in matters of policy, and the consequence of that supremacy is that our duty when interpreting a statute is to ascertain the meaning of the words of the statute duly enacted through the formal legislative process. This limited role serves democratic interests by ensuring that policy is made by elected, politically accountable representatives, not by appointed, life-tenured judges.
We reach this conclusion, frankly, with reluctance... (show quote)
When the Administration’s witnesses raised the low... (show quote)


There is much more to be read about both opinions that came out today at...

http://jonathanturley.org/2014/07/22/d-c-circuit-rules-against-obama-administration-in-halbig/#more-81365

Reply
Jul 23, 2014 00:13:42   #
dljen Loc: Central PA
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
You guys should be much more concerned about the DC district ruling today, even though an opposite ruling came out of the 4th district only hours later. If the DC District ruling is upheld by the SCOTUS it will effectively end Obamacare and force the dems to re-legislate it while giving the republicans a meaningful seat at the table....

Before you get all huffy and start telling me why the ruling was a bad ruling, or why you think that SCOTUS will uphold the IRS regulations let me allow a respected constitutional scholar to put my argument forward for me.



There is much more to be read about both opinions that came out today at...

http://jonathanturley.org/2014/07/22/d-c-circuit-rules-against-obama-administration-in-halbig/#more-81365
You guys should be much more concerned about the D... (show quote)


And since the repubs are just flushed with ideas, you can forget a new health care bill until Obama is out of office. There will be a lot of furious people. The repubs best be careful what they wish for.

Reply
Jul 23, 2014 00:24:22   #
C.R. Loc: United States of Confusion
 
you know that is not true, during the bill's passage obama had a 3 day televised event with repubs putting forth plans and amendments. at the end of the confab obama said the repubs had some good ideas..but...it was his way or the highway, that's what elections are for. that from mr bring us together reach across the aisle. it's been that way from day 1. he's still whining about infrastructure,,,anyone remember the 700 billion they gave him for infrastructure and shovel ready jobs? as for " a lot of furious people", do you mean the 8 million who have signed up LOL

Reply
 
 
Jul 23, 2014 00:25:35   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
dljen wrote:
And since the repubs are just flushed with ideas, you can forget a new health care bill until Obama is out of office. There will be a lot of furious people. The repubs best be careful what they wish for.


I am not so sure that the court will not accept this case next year, I don't think that the republicans have much to fear, the ACA is still polling upside down at something like 55/45, beyond that this suit was bought about by a business group, not the republicans.

I think that if the ACA does come crashing down then the republicans will have to support some fo the most popular elements of it but there will be many elements that will have to be stripped from it to gain their support.

Reply
Jul 23, 2014 00:35:30   #
dljen Loc: Central PA
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
I am not so sure that the court will not accept this case next year, I don't think that the republicans have much to fear, the ACA is still polling upside down at something like 55/45, beyond that this suit was bought about by a business group, not the republicans.

I think that if the ACA does come crashing down then the republicans will have to support some fo the most popular elements of it but there will be many elements that will have to be stripped from it to gain their support.


I'm all for making it better, but throwing it away? What will ppl do, pay all that extra money until (and if) repubs have any ideas? You know they don't want any kind of healthcare. We have the worst healthcare system there is. You know, this may be a great thing. Their feet will be held to the fire (congress') and they will HAVE to come up with something because by the time it will be voted on, they will be up for election. Very interesting.

Reply
Jul 23, 2014 00:48:04   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
dljen wrote:
I'm all for making it better, but throwing it away? What will ppl do, pay all that extra money until (and if) repubs have any ideas? You know they don't want any kind of healthcare. We have the worst healthcare system there is. You know, this may be a great thing. Their feet will be held to the fire (congress') and they will HAVE to come up with something because by the time it will be voted on, they will be up for election. Very interesting.


So they had better have a plan ready, the ACA is not all that so far it has only helped less than 2% of our population... You are overstating the impact of its repeal. Medicaid expansion did not need the ACA, congress if they so chose could have expanded Medicaid without the ACA. As far as the ACA itself goes the Obama administration is already asking insurers participating in the exchanges to not fully raise premiums suggesting that the provisions protecting them from losses will cover them, the reason that the administration is doing this is because the law will become even less popular when families participating in the program are faced with the increases. There is also talk about even further delays in the employer mandate because it too will wreak havoc on the employer provided markets in a manner that will damage public perception of the law.

The dems were entirely too cocky in passing the law and if the administration loses this lawsuit the dems will pay a heavy price for locking the republicans out of the process, had the dems allowed the republicans to participate in the process they would have had more support in trying to save the law, they would have not been so afraid to make amendments via the legislative process, but because they went it alone and disparaged the republicans along the way they are afraid to change the law legislatively and have relied to heavily on the regulatory and executive powers of the administration... That is why this law keeps ending up back in the courts.

Reply
Jul 23, 2014 00:52:17   #
dljen Loc: Central PA
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
So they had better have a plan ready, the ACA is not all that so far it has only helped less than 2% of our population... You are overstating the impact of its repeal. Medicaid expansion did not need the ACA, congress if they so chose could have expanded Medicaid without the ACA. As far as the ACA itself goes the Obama administration is already asking insurers participating in the exchanges to not fully raise premiums suggesting that the provisions protecting them from losses will cover them, the reason that the administration is doing this is because the law will become even less popular when families participating in the program are faced with the increases. There is also talk about even further delays in the employer mandate because it too will wreak havoc on the employer provided markets in a manner that will damage public perception of the law.

The dems were entirely too cocky in passing the law and if the administration loses this lawsuit the dems will pay a heavy price for locking the republicans out of the process, had the dems allowed the republicans to participate in the process they would have had more support in trying to save the law, they would have not been so afraid to make amendments via the legislative process, but because they went it alone and disparaged the republicans along the way they are afraid to change the law legislatively and have relied to heavily on the regulatory and executive powers of the administration... That is why this law keeps ending up back in the courts.
So they had better have a plan ready, the ACA is n... (show quote)


We'll see. You're forgetting the people who have pre-existing conditions, what are they going to do? What are the people going to do who are on their parents insurance? You better hope those republicans are ready to do some work...so far, they obstruct.

Reply
 
 
Jul 23, 2014 01:00:29   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
dljen wrote:
We'll see. You're forgetting the people who have pre-existing conditions, what are they going to do? What are the people going to do who are on their parents insurance? You better hope those republicans are ready to do some work...so far, they obstruct.


Republican obstructionism is entirely overrated, they are hardly any worse than Harry Reid's Senate... Reid disallows amendments effectively killing bills, even those that both parties would like to see passed. I don't know how you can talk about obstructionism when you have Reid as the Majority Leader in the Senate. P

reexisting conditions, caps and some others will have to be worked on, kids to 25... not so sure, sounds like free candy to me with no real justification of unfairness such as the luck of the draw in getting an illness that creates a preexisting condition.

Reply
Jul 23, 2014 01:04:41   #
dljen Loc: Central PA
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
Republican obstructionism is entirely overrated, they are hardly any worse than Harry Reid's Senate... Reid disallows amendments effectively killing bills, even those that both parties would like to see passed. I don't know how you can talk about obstructionism when you have Reid as the Majority Leader in the Senate. P

reexisting conditions, caps and some others will have to be worked on, kids to 25... not so sure, sounds like free candy to me with no real justification of unfairness such as the luck of the draw in getting an illness that creates a preexisting condition.
Republican obstructionism is entirely overrated, t... (show quote)


What are the people going to do w/o healthcare in the meantime? I'm talking about pre-existing condtns.? Are ppl going to go back to losing their homes while they're having chemo?

Reply
Jul 23, 2014 08:35:57   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
dljen wrote:
What are the people going to do w/o healthcare in the meantime? I'm talking about pre-existing condtns.? Are ppl going to go back to losing their homes while they're having chemo?


It won't come apart in one fell swoop, congress will have time to fix it... Will they fix it will be a different question. The ACA was never a good law, the democrats in their hubris overreached in many ways.

Like you said, time will tell.

Reply
Jul 23, 2014 09:54:09   #
ole sarg Loc: south florida
 
Blurreyed you should be more concerned with the VA court ruling supporting ACA!





Blurryeyed wrote:
You guys should be much more concerned about the DC district ruling today, even though an opposite ruling came out of the 4th district only hours later. If the DC District ruling is upheld by the SCOTUS it will effectively end Obamacare and force the dems to re-legislate it while giving the republicans a meaningful seat at the table....

Before you get all huffy and start telling me why the ruling was a bad ruling, or why you think that SCOTUS will uphold the IRS regulations let me allow a respected constitutional scholar to put my argument forward for me.



There is much more to be read about both opinions that came out today at...

http://jonathanturley.org/2014/07/22/d-c-circuit-rules-against-obama-administration-in-halbig/#more-81365
You guys should be much more concerned about the D... (show quote)

Reply
Page 1 of 2 next>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.