JPEG degrade: I'm not sure if I read this someplace over the years, or if I've conjured the thought in my own mind ... but does the process of moving jpg (jpeg) files from compact...

AVarley Loc: Central Valley, California

I'm not sure if I read this someplace over the years, or if I've conjured the thought in my own mind ... but does the process of moving jpg (jpeg) files from compact flash to hard drive, to backup, into/out of Photoshop, resaving, refiling, rebacking up, moving into other backup scenario, etc etc etc (breathe) eventually degrade the image even just a little bit?

Since acquiring my Canon 7D I shoot only RAW, and immediately save the images from camera to permanent external storage, making copies to manipulate in CS3 as needed. Folders are categorized by year and shoot with notation in Excel for cross-reference and retrieval.

It's the other years and years of jpeg files I'm concerned with now.

(If I were only as smart then as I am now, eh?)

Advice? Comments?

photogrl57 Loc: Tennessee

AVarley wrote:

I'm not sure if I read this someplace over the yea... (show quote)

Yes it does affect the quality ... tests have been done and the results are fairly negligible in my opinion... however if it really concerns you that much since you do have the originals .... going forward just open and copy the original to edit... once you have it the way you want it how many more times are you really going to be making any changes? It only really makes a difference when you make changes ... just opening them and closing them won't do anything.

Roger Salls Loc: Stratford, CT

Each and every time you open/close a Jpeg you lose information. While this may not be noticable initialy over time there will be signifigant image degradation. This is one reason pros and knowledgeable people shoot RAW and convert to Tiff or Jpeg . Jpeg is a losse base and Tiff is lossless. I shoot RAW, convert to Tiff if I'm making any adjustments or retouching. I convert to Jpeg when I'm shooting and not making any real changes such as shooting an event where I'll shoot and deliver.

photogrl57 Loc: Tennessee

Well .. I disagree with the everytime you open and close statement ....
but at any rate ... here is an article you may or may not find interesting.
http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/formatsjpeg/a/jpegmythsfacts.htm

GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City

Opening and closing does not degrade.
Editing and saving does.
Nice link photogrl57.
I'll save that one.

JimH Loc: Western South Jersey, USA

photogrl57 wrote:

Well .. I disagree with the everytime you open and close statement ....
but at any rate ... here is an article you may or may not find interesting.
http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/formatsjpeg/a/jpegmythsfacts.htm

+1 good link, P/grl - and correct, JPEG files ONLY lose quality when they are re-compressed after an edit, not just an open/close.

tkhphotography Loc: Gresham, Or, not Seattle

AVarley wrote:

I'm not sure if I read this someplace over the yea... (show quote)

You haven't mentioned if you are 'editing' them in any way; otherwise from what you've posted, I don't see any loss of image from that workflow.

Roger Salls Loc: Stratford, CT

I stand corrected Thanks for that.

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

I have an old JPG that I use and send quite a lot from an ond D1X I used to have. It is 6.84mb when opened in Photoshop 5.0 right now. I do have it saved to CD from when I originally took it, and when I open it in Photoshop 5.0 from that CD it is still the original 8.47mb file it was when I took it. So I have lost about 1 1/2 mb of data from that one image in about 13 years worth of opening, transferring, adjusting and playing with it.
It is because of this that I save everything in TIFF format. If I need a JPG format for anything like uploading or thumbnail samples I simply open that TIFF, resize or whatever I need to do to it, then "Save As" a JPG and send it. I usually keep that JPG in a temp folder for 30 days for follow-up response and then delete it completely, keeping my unaltered TIFF intact.
Hope this helps.

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

Copy, open and close to your heart's content. Open, edit and save, and you'll degrade.

JPEG is a "lossy" method of saving an image.

Try an experiment. Copy a JPEG, open it and save in the lowest JPEG quality your software allows. Open, do some trivial edit, and save it again. Keep opening, editing and saving. After a while, it will deteriorate to the point where it looks like it was made from kid's building blocks.

AVarley Loc: Central Valley, California

Wow, all good information here! Unfortunately it bears out what I think I already knew in my heart of hearts, so lesson learned:

Archive the originals and edit only copies!

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

AVarley wrote:

Wow, all good information here! Unfortunately it bears out what I think I already knew in my heart of hearts, so lesson learned:

Archive the originals and edit only copies!

Or, if your software permits it, open the original JPEG and save a TIFF version. It will be considerably bigger in terms of file size, but you can edit, save, open, edit, save and not lose anything the way a JPEG does. JPEG is "lossy," TIFF is not. Also, if you're using layers, you can save in TIFF format with your layers until you feel you're done, then flatten the image and save as TIFF or revised, final JPEG.

Brucej67 Loc: Cary, NC

If you are losing bits on your JPEG just opening and closing them (without saving) then you have a problem with your hard drive. If you save them over the original opened JPEG then that may be another issue and I will not argue the point.

Roger Salls wrote:

Each and every time you open/close a Jpeg you lose information. While this may not be noticable initialy over time there will be signifigant image degradation. This is one reason pros and knowledgeable people shoot RAW and convert to Tiff or Jpeg . Jpeg is a losse base and Tiff is lossless. I shoot RAW, convert to Tiff if I'm making any adjustments or retouching. I convert to Jpeg when I'm shooting and not making any real changes such as shooting an event where I'll shoot and deliver.

BuckeyeTom73 Loc: Chicago area

Not true. You only lose information when you save as JPEG in an editor. Simple open/close to view does not impact data. Also move, copy to another drive, backup, etc., does not impact the data do long as it is done through the operating system and not through a photo editor.

Roger Salls wrote:

Each and every time you open/close a Jpeg you lose information. While this may not be noticable initialy over time there will be signifigant image degradation. This is one reason pros and knowledgeable people shoot RAW and convert to Tiff or Jpeg . Jpeg is a losse base and Tiff is lossless. I shoot RAW, convert to Tiff if I'm making any adjustments or retouching. I convert to Jpeg when I'm shooting and not making any real changes such as shooting an event where I'll shoot and deliver.

dustywing Loc: North East WI

This is the same thing our computer 'Geek" instructor taught us.
He also said the same thing about editing a copy of the picture.