chrisewers Loc: born UK. live in USA.

As you can see i have a lot of time on my hands!
This is something rattling around in my head for a while: There have been all sorts of discussions about picture critique and to Photoshop or not and how to compose a portrait. So here is a hypothetical senario:
I am a photographer, a lady enters my store (for the purpose of this thread i must be able to see her). She says her daughter is graduating from college and she loves her and wants this occasion to be photographed. All the family loves her daughter and she is the first to graduate. You say yes.
Now comes the day, you set up - look at the venue, think up some shots you might take and get ready. First shot - daughter gets handshake and diploma usual stuff. Up comes the beautiful daughter onto the stage. She is large compared to societies' standard girl format. She also has difficulty walking as she has a deformity as defined by societies norm. You start shooting. Then comes the family together shots, all smiling crying having a great time.
You get back to the shop with all these photos. Fire up your software and upload some likely pictures. What are you going to do? Are you going to produce a photo which takes into account how the family sees the daughter or are you going to try to hide or minimize what society doesn't like? Should you try to make her look "acceptable" to what society takes as a norm[ look thinner, hide impediment etc]. So are you catering to your vision, societies' vision or the families' vision of what the daughter looks like? If you try to hide who she is are you doing a mis-service to her and her family? Should you meet the daughter and mother to see what they want from the pictures and maybe get a feel for what they would like?
Another example - I take a picture of my wife, she says erase it i look fat, i say no it reflects how I see you and I love you like that. Society tells my wife her appearance is unacceptable. Do you as a photographer think you should follow societies rules?
Ok now your turn, keep it clear concise and no fighting or mud slinging in your carefully thought out subjective answers. I think this is a very important thought.

chrisewers Loc: born UK. live in USA.

wow stumped all of you? No flippant comments?

hlmichel Loc: New Hope, Minnesota

I say, unless you are specifically asked to alter their appearance, leave them as they are.
Yesterday I read, "If there is something that is likely to heal/change, I'll fix it--otherwise...." I forget who said it and I am paraphrasing.

Unless the subject(family of subject) in your first example has a warped view of self, they know what they look like and have come to accept that fact.

It is true that society has taught women that they should look a certain way. But I think it is more damaging to change images of size 12 women to make them size 0.

My wife always complains about the way she looks in photos--yet she refuses to follow my directions on posing to make her pictures more flattering.
My advice to her is if you don't like the way you look, do something about it.

10MPlayer Loc: California

Okay I'll take a shot. First, the girl is loved and her family is proud of her. She's overcome some obstacles and they know that. They love her as she is. My guess is they want an honest depiction of the event, with all the flaws. You, as an artist want to present her in the best light. I don't think you need to confront the mom directly unless you feel you must. You might ask, "what do expect?". Otherwise, I think rendering the event as you would any other graduation or whatever it is is what the mom expects.

sandheinrichc Loc: Illinois

Society shouldnt have an effect on how a photo is edited but sadly it has a huge effect. Perfect example I have a birthmark on my forehead but photographers always want to erase it in editing. I lighten my birthmark with makeup but its still there it is apart of me and it is how I want to be seen. When I photograph females I try very hard to pose them so that I can produce flattering photos, but I would never use photoshop to get rid of something just because society says that a woman should be a certain size, when I photograph I see who a person is and. I strive to capture their personality. Thanks for the interesting topic.

speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho

I would not change a thing! Everbody is beautiful in his/hers own right/way, to change it to your own liking is probably an insult. Just shoot for the moment (the special occasion it is), it does not matter how people look, it's special for everyone. Try to capture some moments of emotion and people will like the shots!

Bill Houghton Loc: New York area

:thumbup: :thumbup:

Mike D. Loc: Crowley County, CO.

Speaking as someone who has "special needs" children you would not be doing the family any favors by trying to adapt anyone to societal norms. I think talking to the family would be an excellent idea to see what, if any edits they would like to see and go with that.

We are who we are and although I wouldn't mind losing 50-75 pounds, that is not my present reality.

We have one little guy with Down Syndrome and his Occupational Therapist sat down on our living room floor one day and proceeded to tell us that Downs doesn't go away. A serious DUH moment. Gee, neither does Autism, go figure. The only difference is that autism is harder to detect if he doesn't speak or do classic autistic behaviors. I would no more edit our Downs child's face than cut off my own foot.

chrisewers Loc: born UK. live in USA.

To all. Very honest responses. You are thinking the same as me. But as you see out in the world this is not what happens. Perhaps a photographer in your senses has more of the end users needs in mind and not a commercial agenda.

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

I'd prefer my kids to look like my kids. This whole idea that we're somehow less if we don't have "that look" is just BS. If I were to post what I really thought I'd really piss some folks off so I'll just leave it alone.

mcveed Loc: Kelowna, British Columbia (between trips)

C'mon folks, let's be honest here. Every portrait photographer knows the tricks to emphasizing a models good points and minimizing their bad ones. That doesn't mean using photoshop to make the nose look smaller - it means not taking profiles of large noses. You can emphasize someone's good features and minimize their bad ones without compromising your artistic integrity or upsetting the client. Just make your efforts subtle so that no one will notice and it will not be obvious that you identified weak features.

chrisewers Loc: born UK. live in USA.

Please go ahead. My post is not intended to please people but to promote discussion.

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

There is a difference in trying to make someone look as good as possible with posing, lighting, framing or any technique as opposed to manipulating the image in PP. There are any number of less than "perfect" people that have made it very big. When the model Cindy Crawford was statring out every one wanted her to have that mole on her face removed or covered. She refused. Advisors wahted Streisand to have a nose job, she refused. It seems to me that the role of a photogapher is to make the subject look as good as possible, not to alter their appearence to meet some ideal. In fact that 'Ideal look" changes over time. In the not to distant past the photographer as well as the magazine publisher would have been arrested for showing todays Sports Illustrated swimsuit cover.

Mike D. Loc: Crowley County, CO.

Pepper, there are people here who will choose to get their boxers in a bunch for no other reason than they can. I'm with Chris, speak your mind, just leave out the rude or crude. If they don't like your opinion, which you are still allowed by our Constituion to profess, they can Unwatch the thread.

amehta Loc: Boston

What I find most sad is that this sort of question is even worth discussing. I think that we should limit how much we change people in glamour and portrait shoots, and we should generally not change them in "journalistic" shoots like the graduation picture scenario.