mapster Loc: Wisconsin

Hi all,
I am a little confused between these two filters. I have a ND Lee filter system that I have not used overly much, but like the results. I keep reading the polarizer is used a lot for waterfalls and moving water. I have to drive to see any fast moving water around my area, but plan to go to Bond Falls which is within reasonable driving distance when spring comes (if it ever does- high of -0- for three days this next coming week!). So, my question is, can I use the ND and get results that are the same without having to purchase a polarizer too? I have the 0.9 soft edge with Lee right now.
Thanks for your help :-D

WAL

There is no parallel between the polarizing filter and the neutral density filter. The N D Filter is just to reduce light w/o any other effect. The Polarizing filter is meant to have a distinct effect on the picture. Usually to reduce reflections or increase the density of the sky.

I think they get confused because they both are frequently used to change the appearance of moving or standing water. They also look similar at first glance.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

The CPL (polarizer) can be good for water that has reflections on the surface. It can make the water seem to disappear. It can also make the sky a deep blue and enhance colors, but it has to be pointed at a 90° angle to the sun to get the maximum effect.

The ND filter will reduce light entering the camera, so you can use a longer exposure and get that milky effect from flowing water, like stream or waterfalls.

mapster Loc: Wisconsin

So in effect, you are saying I could get the same results with my ND filter and a longer exposure with a tripod? :lol:

busted_shutter

Not at all. Two different entities. You can have two bears...a polar bear, and a black bear...Both related...but two separate bears.

A polarizing filter, used both in color and black and white photography, can be used to darken overly light skies. Because the clouds are relatively unchanged, the contrast between the clouds and the sky is increased. Atmospheric haze and reflected sunlight are also reduced, and in color photographs overall color saturation is increased. Polarizers are often used to deal with situations involving reflections, such as those involving water or glass, including pictures taken through glass windows

The benefits of polarizing filters are largely unaffected by the move to digital photography: though software post-processing can simulate many other types of filter, most of the optical effects of controlling polarization at the time of capture (particularly where reflections are involved) simply cannot be replicated in software.

http://photography.tutsplus.com/articles/quick-tip-an-introduction-to-polarizing-filters--photo-3591

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/polarizing-filters.htm

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml9ORHZHwt8

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In photography and optics, a neutral density filter or ND filter is a filter that reduces or modifies the intensity of all wavelengths or colors of light equally, giving no changes in hue of color rendition. It can be a colorless (clear) or grey filter. The purpose of a standard photographic neutral density filter is to reduce the amount of light entering the lens. Doing so allows the photographer to select combinations of aperture, exposure time and sensor sensitivity which would otherwise produce overexposed pictures. This is done to achieve effects such as a shallower depth of field and/or motion blur of a subject in a wider range of situations and atmospheric conditions.

For example, one might wish to photograph a waterfall at a slow shutter speed to create a deliberate motion blur effect. The photographer might determine that in order obtain the desired effect a shutter speed of ten seconds was needed. On a very bright day, there might be so much light that even at minimum film speed and a minimum aperture, the ten second shutter speed would let in too much light and the photo would be overexposed. In this situation, applying an appropriate neutral density filter is the equivalent of stopping down one or more additional stops, allowing for the slower shutter speed and the desired motion-blur effect.

http://photography.tutsplus.com/articles/quick-tip-when-and-how-to-use-a-neutral-density-filter--photo-3661

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/neutral-density-filters.htm

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v1W1Iy2H8gc

mapster Loc: Wisconsin

Thanks busted shutter for the explanation and all those websites!
I appreciate it
Mapster

mapster Loc: Wisconsin

Thanks for the info WAL!
Mapster

mapster Loc: Wisconsin

Thanks for your help Jerryc41!
Mapster

busted_shutter

Most welcome sir.

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

Picdude Loc: Ohio

Very good thread on this subject. Thanks to Mapster for stating this.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

For long exposures, you would use the ND. For better color or reducing glare, you would use the CPL.

If you want to see an ND filter perform magic, watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpNtAXbaNr0

pecohen Loc: Central Maine

Reflection off of any surface polarizes the reflected light. Polarizing filters block polarized light and by rotating the filter you alter the proportion of reflected light that reaches the image surface inside your camera. This allows you to adjust the color of the sky and the brightness of water; it also allows you to determine whether your image sees through a window or just sees what is reflected off of the window. You will see these effects most strongly on bright sunny days.

A polarizing filter is probably the most useful of filters for digital photography because, with today's cameras, not even a RAW image captures the polarization of the incoming light; you just can't get the effect of the filter through editing.

An ND filter simply blocks a fraction of the incoming light, with no discrimination based on polarization. This will allow you to use a lower aperture number with a given shutter speed or a slower shutter speed with the same aperture.

The virtue of this is, in the first instance, that the lower aperture number (more open aperture) will reduce the depth of field in the image and you might want to do this to blur parts of the image that you judge less important. Often though, you could approximate this effect in any good photo editor.

Being able to use slower shutter speed will allow you get a motion blur on whatever is moving in the image - moving water, a vehicle, or perhaps a running animal. This effect would usually be quite difficult to get later through editing.