Celebrate the holiday: I hope all of the city, state, and federal employees enjoy the day off to celebrate the birthday of someone who is considered a great leader, strategist, and...

pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"

I hope all of the city, state, and federal employees enjoy the day off to celebrate the birthday of someone who is considered a great leader, strategist, and American hero. I'm talking of course about Robert E. Lee. I also realize that it's the day we celebrate somebody else's birthday but the name escapes me at the moment. :roll: :thumbup:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee

sarge69 Loc: Ft Myers, FL

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Sarge69 :shock:

pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"

sarge69 wrote:

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Sarge69 :shock:

Not a smart move stepping in the line of fire with me Sarge. :roll: :lol: :thumbup:

tschmath Loc: Los Angeles

pounder35 wrote:

I hope all of the city, state, and federal employees enjoy the day off to celebrate the birthday of someone who is considered a great leader, strategist, and American hero. I'm talking of course about Robert E. Lee. I also realize that it's the day we celebrate somebody else's birthday but the name escapes me at the moment. :roll: :thumbup:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee

Robert E. Lee - the greatest traitor this country has ever known, a man who took up arms against and led an insurrection against his own country. How anyone can see him as a hero totally escapes me. He was directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans, so he is no hero. Grant should have had him arrested and hung from the rafters of the courthouse where he signed the surrender papers.

pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"

tschmath wrote:

Robert E. Lee - the greatest traitor this country has ever known, a man who took up arms against and led an insurrection against his own country. How anyone can see him as a hero totally escapes me. He was directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans, so he is no hero. Grant should have had him arrested and hung from the rafters of the courthouse where he signed the surrender papers.

And away we goooooooo................... :lol:

Robert Graybeal Loc: Myrtle Beach

tschmath wrote:

Robert E. Lee - the greatest traitor this country has ever known, a man who took up arms against and led an insurrection against his own country. How anyone can see him as a hero totally escapes me. He was directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans, so he is no hero. Grant should have had him arrested and hung from the rafters of the courthouse where he signed the surrender papers.

Sure would have been a different song if the South had won!

pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"

tschmath wrote:

Robert E. Lee - the greatest traitor this country has ever known, a man who took up arms against and led an insurrection against his own country. How anyone can see him as a hero totally escapes me. He was directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans, so he is no hero. Grant should have had him arrested and hung from the rafters of the courthouse where he signed the surrender papers.

General Lee was an officer in an Army of a group of states seeking independence from a tyrannical government that was putting unfair and burdening taxes on those states. Sound familiar? A striking resemblance to George Washington leading the troops against the English in the American Revolution. Using your logic George Washington was a traitor and responsible for all the lives lost in our struggle for independence. :thumbup:

tschmath Loc: Los Angeles

pounder35 wrote:

General Lee was an officer in an Army of a group of states seeking independence from a tyrannical government that was putting unfair and burdening taxes on those states. Sound familiar? A striking resemblance to George Washington leading the troops against the English in the American Revolution. Using your logic George Washington was a traitor and responsible for all the lives lost in our struggle for independence. :thumbup:

George Washington WAS a traitor to the British government. But history is written by the winners. Had the South won the Civil War, Lee would be the Washington of the South. But he didn't win, so he is a traitor to his country.

pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"

tschmath wrote:

George Washington WAS a traitor to the British government. But history is written by the winners. Had the South won the Civil War, Lee would be the Washington of the South. But he didn't win, so he is a traitor to his country.

History is history. You can spin it anyway you want. In your way of thinking everybody that ever broke away , for whatever reason, from oppression is a traitor. Going all the back to the beginning of recorded history. History is packed with traitors I guess. :roll:

tschmath Loc: Los Angeles

pounder35 wrote:

History is history. You can spin it anyway you want. In your way of thinking everybody that ever broke away , for whatever reason, from oppression is a traitor. Going all the back to the beginning of recorded history. History is packed with traitors I guess. :roll:

Any person who turns away from his or her country is a traitor to that country. He or she maybe hailed as a liberator or founding father in another country, but to his place of birth he or she could be considered a traitor. Washington is a traitor to the British, not to Americans. Benedict Arnold is a traitor to Americans, not the British. Eric Snowden can be considered a traitor to Americans, not to Russians. It all depends on which side you happen to be on. Pretty simple stuff. Lee will always be a hero to those who believe in in the CSA, but he was a traitor to the USA. Plain and simple.

And remember, Lee led an armed insurrection. Jane Fonda talked to the North Vietnamese, and she's villified to this day. Eric Snowden released damning documents, and he's cast as a traitor. Neither of those two people fired a shot, or were responsible for killing a single person. Lee had the blood of hundreds of thousands of Americans on his hands, and should never be considered a hero in any sense of the word by Americans today.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

tschmath wrote:

Robert E. Lee - the greatest traitor this country has ever known, a man who took up arms against and led an insurrection against his own country. How anyone can see him as a hero totally escapes me. He was directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans, so he is no hero. Grant should have had him arrested and hung from the rafters of the courthouse where he signed the surrender papers.

I was going to skip over this thread until I saw your response... I am not really keen on marking MLK's birthday with a tribute to Robert E Lee.. But! After reading your response with which I totally disagree I would ask you to do a little research and attribute the following quote to it's author and the context in which these words were spoken, you may be surprised by what you learn.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."

pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"

tschmath wrote:

Any person who turns away from his or her country ... (show quote)

Hanoi Jane and Snowden. Snowden is a criminal for breaking a non-disclosure agreement. A crime. Treason for aiding and abetting an enemy is a bit of a gray area. He probably put out information that was already known to our enemies but not a direct flow of information to a country we are at war with. They're not stupid. Hanoi Jane willingly put herself in a position to be used for propaganda while we were at war. And if the story is true with her handing over the serial numbers she was "slipped" by the POWs, she is a traitor. If you want to call Robert E. Lee a traitor it's your opinion and you are free to express it. That's what's great about America. Lee is way in the past. You better worry about our current "Clear and Present Danger". He's sitting in the Oval Office. Unless he's playing golf in Hawaii. :thumbup:

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

pounder35 wrote:

Hanoi Jane and Snowden. Snowden is a criminal for ... (show quote)

Maybe Tschmath would do well to understand that succession was considered to be a state's right until after the civil war, that the SOCTUS weighed in only after the civil war on succession. It was a sitting Vice President of the United States who authored South Carolina's first letter of succession prior some 20 years prior to the civil war. Prior to the civil war it was the general consensus of politicians and the general public that states did indeed have the right to succeed.

pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"

Blurryeyed wrote:

Maybe Tschmath would do well to understand that succession was considered to be a state's right until after the civil war, that the SOCTUS weighed in only after the civil war on succession. It was a sitting Vice President of the United States who authored South Carolina's first letter of succession prior some 20 years prior to the civil war. Prior to the civil war it was the general consensus of politicians and the general public that states did indeed have the right to succeed.

Don't confuse T-Mouth (he uses this name for his rap concerts) with details and facts. He needs to stick with teaching 16 year olds math so they can move on to 5th grade. :thumbup:

Bruce with a Canon Loc: Islip

psssst it's Marty