Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

I am posting this in the main discussion area, because I suspect that most people will not be looking at the video forum.

I do quite a bit of photography - stills *and* video - for my church. You all know the sort of thing, and probably many out there do the same stuff. I have a collection of assorted cameras which shoot video, so I have them scattered around the church in strategic locations. Because I am usually up there with the choir and/or handbell ringers, I have to just start the cameras going and leave them to it.

This means that I end up with with 4 (or now, 5) different recordings of the same piece being performed. (don't worry, there *is* a question coming!)

I do my video editing using Sony's MovieStudio. It took a *lot* of trial and error to get this program to do *anything*, and you should see my Amazon review of the program! After struggling for a long time, I now have it so that I can edit and produce reasonable (although very amateur) videos. However... The *time* resolution is not good enough to sync video to a separate soundtrack. I can edit the video frame by frame, but not with any sound. This means that I have to produce 4 or 5 different videos of each piece, rather than being able to cut between cameras while using the sound-track from the best recording.

I am fairly certain that Adobe's Premiere Pro would give me the functionality that I want. Not at that price, though... I wish there was an option to add it to the Adobe 'lease' scheme, but as far as I know, you can have the $10 photographer's special, or $25 per month for the whole CC suite. I don't use the other programs enough to justify spending that much more, though.

Does anyone use Premiere Elements, and if so, do you think it would allow me to sync my music and video files together? Getting voices synced to lip movements is not *too* much of an issue, because most of the shots are fairly 'long', in terms of range. Handbells, however, are another kettle of fish. It is a very visual art form, and you can see exactly where in the swing the bell sounds, no matter how far off you are...

Because this is a fairly spasmodic occurrence, I really don't want to spend a whole heap of money on software for it. Of course, though, I don't want to spend *any* money on something which is not going to give me more than I can do now.

So, was it worth wading through all that? You tell me!

Thanks in advance...

RJNaylor Loc: Delmar, New York

Someone else may have more helpful advice but I do know something about this as I am manager of our local Educational Channel. I don't think you can get do what you want on the kind of budget you're talking about. What you need is a primary sound capture device and a switching system -- which means you need someone to operate it. This way you have one time line synced to the video.

As for sound, it is much harder to manage than video. Pending someone else's better advice, I think the best you can do is to piece the various files together and then adjust the sound of each to get a similar level -- you can boost some as needed but the more you boost the more it will sound like an echo chamber or the more noise you will have.

PhotoJoe Loc: WASHINGTON

I have premiere elements 10. I think it could help you, but I haven't gotten that deep into it yet. Good luck.

Morning Star Loc: West coast, North of the 49th N.

Yes, I too have premiere Elements, version 12. While I have not played with that a lot yet, in premiere 9 I actually did combine by switching back and forth between two video clips, by separating the sound from the images, and replacing series of frames from the first clip with those of the second clip.

Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

It isn't the quality of the sound that is an issue. 2 of the cameras actually give decent sound - certainly not "broadcast-quality", but not bad. It's getting the picture synced to the sound is the problem. I guess I *could* keep the sound of each clip attached to its video, but that would cause horrendous problems. One of the cameras has no audio, and another is there but extremely quiet. I don't need to boost anything. I need to be able to edit frame-by-frame - with sound of some description.

I could sync on a particular bell, matching the audio to the 'flick' of the wrist - or even better, when we table-damp by basically hitting the bell onto the (padded) table.
My program gives me no way to hear the audio, or even to see the waveform representation.

Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

That sounds like what I am talking about. Did you use a single audio track and just overlay the other video signal, or did you cut in each clip as audio/video combined?

For most 'normal' purposes, it would be easy enough to get the sync "good-enough". For music, though, we obviously can't have any audio artifacts at the change of clip...

Morning Star Loc: West coast, North of the 49th N.

Bloke, I am not at home right now - if you can please wait till tomorrow, I'll try and repeat what I did before and jot down the steps.

Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

Ok, I would appreciate that. There is no rush at all. I already 'delivered' the single recordings from our Christmas Eve service, so nobody is waiting for stuff. I want to go back and make them better, but then it will be a nice surprise for them when I finish!

catinacabin Loc: central Minnesota

I use Power Director for my videos. It has several different tracks you can lay down different clips and drag them to where you where they could be synched. I've never tried that, though. I know I've had a lot of fun with this software.

jzen Loc: Meigs County Ohio

I know it's cheap, like free cheap but windows movie maker shows you audio and you can zoom in to fractions of a second, play two video clips side by side while only using one audio clip which does not have to belong to either video. There are thousands of effects and transitions that you can get off the internet for free. Although they have a windows live movie maker I prefer the windows vista 6.0 they have versions that will run on windows 8 and 8.1 which is what I am currently running. If your interested I can send you a link where you can get Fx and transitions and a compatable version for your computer

BboH Loc: s of 2/21, Ellicott City, MD

Bloke - what do you shoot with? If Nikon, it is my belief that ViewNX2 has video editing features. Have never used it so have no idea what it will do nor the extend of such

Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

I have a motley collection of cameras... The main one, up to now, has been the SX50. I have a Panasonic handycam which shoots great video but the sound is very muted. I also use a Canon Powershot 1300IS P&S, which gets pretty good results but only has a 5x zoom, and a no-name copy of a GoPro. That one is a little limited - if I keep it in the protective case so it will stand up by itself, it doesn't get audio - or at least so faint that it is completely unusable. It is also fixed at a very wide angle. I have stuck it on top of the organ to catch the choir processing, and because it is so wide (=small) it doesn't show enough detail of the faces to worry about sync, so I just attach the audio from one of the other cameras.

I have just gotten a T4i, but I haven't had a chance to use that in one of my 'productions' just yet.

The biggest problem I have in the shooting, is that all of them except the Panasonic have this stupid 4GB file size limit. I have to set them and leave them running, and they stop at the most inopportune times! Shooting HD, they will stop after about 20 minutes. I have to shoot 640x480 to have any chance at all. We record the audio of the service and post online to dropbox. When the choir anthem is sung along with our electronic keyboard instead of organ or piano, there is a problem with the audio system and the keyboard completely drowns out the choir. Our plan is, I record those services using the SX so far, and edit in my audio of the choir, replacing the distorted section. We did that last week, only because the anthem comes close to the end of the service, it ran out of time. I had started it immediately before we began processing, but it hit the limit (usually 58 minutes 59 secs with 640x480) about 3 seconds before the end of the anthem.

Frustratingly, according to the manual for the T4i, it will immediately start recording again. The go-pro clone does this, and I can edit the recordings together seamlessly. For some unknown reason, though, the T4i will stop after recording 30 minutes, regardless of file size. So, I can use that to record HD footage, but I have to find a point in the service where I can come down from the choir loft and start (or restart) the recording. The music director is not too happy about this.

Because all of them switch off, I can't just ask someone in the congregation to hit the button for me. They lose the zoom and everything else. *penny drop* Just a moment - the T4i won't zoom itself right in when it switches off! If I set the zoom and focus manually beforehand, I just need to have someone switch it on and hit the button... That might actually work!

Wow - I didn't set out here to write a novel! If you are still with me at this point, thanks for reading!

kamrakid Loc: Reinbeck, IA

Hi Bloke,
Yes, Adobe Premiere will do the job for you, as would a variety of less expensive and simpler programs. We do multiple camera synchs all the time, and it's easy. You just need a video editing program that allows multiple tracks for video.
So you've got several recordings of the same thing -- just select the one that has the best audio and put it on the timeline first. It'll be your master. Then put the video recordings of all the other cameras on their own separate video tracks. You won't need to use any of their audio because you've already got your best sound on the audio track.
The trick is to put all the video tracks into perfect synch. Hollywood uses a "clapboard" to do it. A much easier way is to provide someone with a simple flash camera (or flash unit), and have them take a flash picture once you've got all the cameras recording. That'll give you a very brief flash -- a common point on all of your video cameras. Once you've got all the video tracks on your editing timeline, simply line them up on that flash moment. (Use the original recording -- the one with the best audio -- as your "master," and synch the other video tracks to the burst of light on that track.)
Now you have a single audio track with several video tracks synchronized above it. Lock those tracks into place so you won't lose synch.
Then all you have to do is select which camera's image you want to use at a particular time, and mute or delete that same portion of the other video tracks. You're still free to use transitions between shots as you wish. Everything will be scrunched together when you're done editing and render the video. You'll end up with your original audio track, and a single video track that uses portions of all of your cameras' recordings. Everything will remain perfectly in synch with the sound. You can even "edit to the beat" if you want your video images to change whenever there's a change in the audio.
I happen to use Sony Vegas as my main video editing software, but ANY of the packages -- even free ones -- will work fine as long as they allow multiple tracks on the timeline.
Hope this helps.

kamrakid Loc: Reinbeck, IA

Hi Bloke,
Yes, Adobe Premiere will do the job for you, as would a variety of less expensive and simpler programs. We do multiple camera synchs all the time, and it's easy. You just need a video editing program that allows multiple tracks for video.
So you've got several recordings of the same thing -- just select the one that has the best audio and put it on the timeline first. It'll be your master. Then put the video recordings of all the other cameras on their own separate video tracks. You won't need to use any of their audio because you've already got your best sound on the audio track.
The trick is to put all the video tracks into perfect synch. Hollywood uses a "clapboard" to do it. A much easier way is to provide someone with a simple flash camera (or flash unit), and have them take a flash picture once you've got all the cameras recording. That'll give you a very brief flash -- a common point on all of your video cameras. Once you've got all the video tracks on your editing timeline, simply line them up on that flash moment. (Use the original recording -- the one with the best audio -- as your "master," and synch the other video tracks to the burst of light on that track.)
Now you have a single audio track with several video tracks synchronized above it. Lock those tracks into place so you won't lose synch.
Then all you have to do is select which camera's image you want to use at a particular time, and mute or delete that same portion of the other video tracks. You're still free to use transitions between shots as you wish. Everything will be scrunched together when you're done editing and render the video. You'll end up with your original audio track, and a single video track that uses portions of all of your cameras' recordings. Everything will remain perfectly in synch with the sound. You can even "edit to the beat" if you want your video images to change whenever there's a change in the audio.
I happen to use Sony Vegas as my main video editing software, but ANY of the packages -- even free ones -- will work fine as long as they allow multiple tracks on the timeline.
Hope this helps.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

My son does a lot of video editing, and he uses PowerDirector and also the free Windows Live Movie Maker.