Mickey88 Loc: Central Florida

I think you replied to the wrong post, I didn't say anything about printing photos for guests

Wheezie

well, I never said it was the DJ, only that the table with the printer was near the DJ booth, how convenient that someone can request a song and order a print at the same time! anyway, this was an associate of the DJ who was videotaping and doing stills!!!!!!.

now the rest of the story.... after the PPA lawyer called the person who was selling the prints, he called the groom and asked the groom to say that he( the groom) had requested that he take stills and sell prints!
WOW un-ethicle hits a new low!!! The groom calls me immediately and lets me know what is going on. This person also tried to have the groom put this in writing in his contract after the fact!

So I am pretty much retired from wedding photography after almost 40 yrs and have become an officiant. Justice of the Peace (for the past 10 yrs) You wouldn't believe what I see from the "photographers" from this new vantage point!!!!! EEESCH!!

johnnyg67 Loc: Northwest Georgia

Photography has changed and in my case the after the event prints sales have fallen low enough to not be much of a factor anymore.(maybe because of the way I market but that's ok) People copy off Bride and groom prints, the internet, and off of CD's or DVDs. Everybody has a decent camera and pictures are being made everywhere during the wedding. So the quote "Professional Photographer" is considered a necessary part of the wedding but not as much as before...well unless you get into the megabucks photographers.

My viewpoint has been for the last few years (after digital became widespread) is to decide how much I want to make for my time, experience, and talent. After that if I get extra print orders I'm happy, but if not I've made my money up front and I'm happy.

I would never go during a wedding and make a big deal out of any situation if I can avoid it. Its their day, not mine. My selling point in order to get the wedding and make some $$$ is simple. You (the bride and groom) are paying me for my knowledge and experience: I will get the right pictures to cover your day because I know what pictures to get and how to shoot them (the pictures that is :-). I will let others do pictures as long as they do not interfere with my work and images (others flashes and interruptions can ruin the effect I'm after and they will slow you down) However, I want to come across as professional but at the same time I am a hired servant and I'm there to work for them. No place for egos on their special day even if I'm ticked inside!

I don't do many weddings anymore (mostly small wedding parties so I even charge less than I used to) But I decide what its worth to me and they can do whatever they want. I work to keep everything in the time allotted so the wedding will go smoothly. Basically I will do my job and go home with the amount of money I wanted. Everyone has a good day and that is the goal for the bride and groom.

lindysuewho

Oh excuse me Ansel Adams. That behavior will get you nothing but a bad rep. You can right and still look like a jerk.

English_Wolf Loc: Near Pensacola, FL

Much ado about nothing.
Do your job, get paid,
Lesson learned: Make sure you never deal with that DJ again.
Had the same type of trouble with a different media (video) We just turned down anyone using this particular video guy (was taking pictures to insert in his video).
The word went around and soon many photographer turned couples down. He went out of business.

Sunrisepano Loc: West Sub of Chicago

I was assistant photographer at a wedding where the B&G had hired another/additional photographer. This guy was producing schtick...t-shirts, table cards, coffee mug and whatever else he could attach a photo to. He also played a powerpoint presentation on a laptop at the B&G's table. After the wedding, he put his photos online and was selling them for $1. His excuse, he wasn't really making money selling them so it was OK. No, it isn't OK. The professional photographer is there to cover the event, to make a living. You know, pay the mortgage/rent, put food on the table and other similar non-essential luxuries (sarcasm here). If Mr. Schtick's pictures sell for $1 (and he isn't making a living at it) and mine sell for $5 or more (I am trying to make a living), Mr. Schtick is STEALING my living.

Some people questioned the type of equipment used and that if it is amateurish. "Professional" simply means that the photographer is being paid. Nothing more. Nothing less. The tool doesn't make someone professional. I have seen amateurs with more money than they know how to spend with cameras that cost 2 to 10 times more than mine. Their pictures were no better than if they had used disposable cameras. I saw a 30" x 24" portrait taken by a professional using a 110 camera that was absolutely beautiful. (For the unenlightened, a 110 camera is obsolete and had a negative about the size of your fingernail - translation: very grainy if printed to a 4" x 6" size. So, anyone taking photos that take potential buyers away from me when I was contracted to do the coverage is stealing my liveleyhood.

How long would I last if I were to shag people going into a garage or dealer for service on their car and sell them the "same" service for $1. I say I should be allowed to do that because I am not really making money at it. The legit garage would have the cops on me faster than greased lightning, and rightly/legally so.

johnnyg67 Loc: Northwest Georgia

Good reason to be upset there sunrisepano, but you did make my point that I made earlier...the only way to do weddings or any event these days in my opinion is to make your money up front in the package you offer. That way you are sure of how much you will make and if you do make extra sales then its ice cream on top of the cake. Do your best to make your images "professional" so that the $1.00 dude's work shows that its worth just that $1.00 If its worth your time to do a wedding for $500., $800. $1500 or what ever then get it. Also press the point in your marketing or sales approach that you offer professional images and quality prints from Pro Labs not Walmart or big box shots. Guarantee satisfaction on prints ordered from you and show what separates a pro from a $1 snapshot artist. I do a few inexpensive weddings where I clear $500 or more for a CD and I'm ok when I do that. I'm not full time anymore so it does not bother me I just take my money and say bye with a smile. Of course this is just my opinion for what its worth.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

johnnyg67 said in part "I do a few inexpensive weddings where I clear $500 or more for a CD and I'm ok when I do that. I'm not full time anymore so it does not bother me I just take my money and say bye with a smile. Of course this is just my opinion for what its worth." I agree, the level of excellence has declined in food, music, and many other things, or is that because I am old... or both?

The mass of the new generation, because of personal taste and cost, and lack of a sharp eye, does not want the classic fine photography. A TV, E Mail, Phone show group of formats is great for them,,, The bride wants to whip out her phone and show the wedding show... you have 16mpix and a DSLR high quality lenses etc for a cell phone,,, get real !!! You ouch at something in the background and spend time cloning it out, ouch get real. Perfection and high standards of excellence in photography is not is the way the Mid-Highschool crowd lives and will continue to live. Eventually a fine catered meal will be McRibs sandwich and Fries and a keg of Beer.

Don't stand in the doorway, the times are achangin" to quote Bob Dylan of the 1960's. If you can shoot, incorporate their photos with a hard rock music background and walk away a hero with $500 for 5 hr shoot, 10 hrs of edit then you will get more McRibs weddings and at two shoots a month that is $12,000 a year and a lot of free food beer and fun. They are the mass market of today.

Regarding Prints, to help the bride, have an example sample of a particular example wedding shot printed by each local print-by-button place and several more expensive places, Kodak to high end. Show them and suggest, but let them (her) decide which to get. You do not front the money or in two weeks when they have a fight and are separated or they lose a job you would be out the cash. They send off and pay to the level of their choice.

Do not forget to get the names and addresses of the bridesmaids and send them the DVD and your cards. They are your advertising and perhaps future clients.

johnnyg67 Loc: Northwest Georgia

Good points dpullum. However I know that some people are still around that want "the best" and will pay for it, unfortunately most want to pay thousands for the bridal dress, the flowers, and the reception, but they want to pay the photographer less because everyone has a friend or family member with a good DSLR and they (the B+G) do not understand the difference between an experineced pro and a "good camera" holder person. So they seem to be looking for the "fast food' price on wedding pictures.

All I really do is decide if its worth it to me to do it and if I can use the extra cash??? Some pros would never touch a wedding for under a grand or much more and that's fine too. I do however make myself give the best service I can even on the small weddings. After all I agreed to the price so I owe them my best. As long as the DJ or other picture takers do not directly interfere with my job at the time then we all can leave with a good feeling that the day went well and that's important even on a inexpensive package.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

Johnnyg, (name sake great Jazz man)
Yes, I sub teach for $65/day.. read the chapter and work hard all day controling yet allowing freedom. Kid respect me, "cause you respect us (for who we are)." They are the future. Paws Time, is silent reading time (ho ho, yea really!!!) some have Kendles and read from electronic format!! it is a modern world. Photos are I-Phones or on a pad at 6"x8".

Yes there are people who like good quality, but they are faiding from the scene. Regardless of price and the requirements of the client, my compulsive good job self requires me to do an excellent job. If i work too long on one photo, that is my fault and my choice. I want to feel proud of my work. As one man said "My pearls must be right before I 'cast them to swine.'" see Matthew 7:6 christian Bible.

For what I give for the wedding photoshoot see page 2 of http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-14881-2.html#186358

Mudshark Loc: Illinois

I don't shoot weddings for every single reason posted in this entire thread. However, I have enjoyed reading this because it brings up many problems in related fields......and makes me feel better knowing I've avoided this particular area. I've told people for years that one of the things I truly love about photography is it's breadth and depth. No matter your personal interest, photography can play an important roll and allow you to make a living being somehow involved in your passion. Since the early 60's, I've slowly moved from one area to the next. When I would start to tire or burn out on something (table top product photography for instance) I would just start sliding into another area...In the last few years I've taken an interest in portraits and restoring old family photos. Feel like I'm helping people celebrate and remember their family.
As to the above...I stand by the old saying........as a photographer..."YOU ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE LAST JOB YOU SHOT."

English_Wolf Loc: Near Pensacola, FL

So we can assume all the 'greats' died and are great only because of their last shot, not because of their lifetime work...

I think you just threw away the food processor (baby) with the soiled water!!!!

Mudshark Loc: Illinois

A great many photographers (and many in other professions as well) tend to work very hard, produce great things, win awards then somehow try to coast on their past work. You have to make every job the very best you can do. If you start living on your past work...you will indeed die.
I think you are trying too hard to put a spin on an old adage that rings true. If you want to slack off on your work...well...you will be that much less competition in an already crowded field.

English_Wolf Loc: Near Pensacola, FL

You have to thrive for perfection, I completely agree. Not for the client's sake, I don't care about him, her or the numerous before or after. Thriving for an 'illusory' perfection is a personal goal that dispenses with the surrounding reality.

Your: "YOU ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE LAST JOB YOU SHOT." is a bit much, hence my rebuttal.

Working well has nothing to do with reputation. I know great photographers who work extremely well and have no reputation. Look a Thomas Edison, he did very little other than patent ideas and concepts thought and made possible by his assistants. Look at the universities that register patents from the work of their students, yeah hard work pays. How much do we pay the folks who are out in bad weather to maintain our precious comfort, are they well paid for their work? and the miners? firemen? policeman? Military?

"Pay for hard work/reputation" is all fluff, nothing else. Just look around you today (and yesterday, civilization based on the weakest, slavery or near slavery).

The truth of the matter is that you are only as good as your PR department.

So, if you want to use an 'old adage' look way beyond it first.

An old adage means strictly nothing. In this case, this is a phrase used many times to justify getting rid of folks for whatever reason with the least explanation possible.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

English Wolf again you shock me "The truth of the matter is that you are only as good as your PR department." You should not speak the truth.

I have a photo that I downloaded from a magazine. First Prize Winner!!! What!!! I am so tempted to steal the shot as is Print and see how many points it gets at my camera club. Perhaps 12/27,,, 27 is max. First prize. Needs crop, needs clone removal of stuff, color/colour (UK Magazine) adjust. Lots of work. Sorry two truth speakers on one page too much for many and in one day... I apologize.

Wolf, I know there is no Santa, it still grieves me, but I have taken one of the pills, white not the blue one, and so now I can take it... well, Wolf, is the famous western photo guy AmSelling Atoms any good or is that a myth too? Be truthful I can take it. Is his all PR, one of those myths, I know all politicians believe in God and all say the he makes the best photos ever,,, not God, the other guy.