rpavich Loc: West Virginia

Wow...no kidding.

I'm at a loss for words too...I'm bowing out of this conversation...it's going off the rails.

winterrose Loc: Kyneton, Victoria, Australia

My first wife used to throw a little tantrum and walk out of the room when a bit of a discussion was at hand. It was her way to avoid justification of her point of view.

My last wife just denies sex.

As I would hope you do not think the latter would have any effect here I am disappointed that you might be of the former.......

Regards, Rob.

wilsondl2 Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska

A few of my thoughts 1. Why anyone sets their camera in Manual and then uses the meter in the camera to set aperture and shutter speed? If you use the Aperture or Shutter Priority the camera will set the other to the same setting you do using the camera meter. ISO is already set and to get the exposure you want you have to decide if you think is more important for you photograph and set it and the other setting HAS to be one setting to get the exposure you want. Next thought - 2 I took my old Weston II from the 40s and my Gossen Super Pilot form the 70s and my Minolta IIIf from about 2000 and my camera out to measure light. Guess what they all agreed. Lot easier to use the meter in the camera. See no reason to use an exposure meter when I have three great meters in my camera I use the matrix and spot. Have the spot programmed to the funk button so I can use it with ease. The camera meter also meters through the lens hard to do with a hand held. 3 I do use a meter the two or three times a year I need a ambient reading. 4 Why do hand held meter guys think their way is the best way for everyone? Said In My Not So Humble Opinion. - Dave

charles brown Loc: Tennesse

Just finished reading all of this-my head hurts and I need an aspirin, forget the aspirin and bring on the vodka martini. Can anyone sum this up for me, don't have the strength to read again. After everything said and done I offer this advice - get the light meter app for smartphones. Actually believe it is more accurate than my camera meter. Time marches on.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

Sorry Oddjobber,,, I added the olden days in the above text just for you... in the phrase "
Indeed we are blessed, I date back to when exposure in a spectrograph was affected by film “reciprocity” and other complex light silver interactions…
I removed it before posting out of respect for your maturity and mine... tho mine is a few years greater than yours. I did not use "olden" nor "golden" nor "bolden" etc.... :thumbup: :lol:
-------------------------

and wilsondl2,,,, Yes, no reason to use meter,,, even if you put on manual and use the suggested reading on Auto and then shift from there to suit your specific purpose,,, then you are still using a thru the lens, lens/filter light that will strike the sensor... and that is good.

When to override all info from the camera... shooting the moon is an example... the camera says where is the light? You know where it is and set the camera to f=8 and t=1/100 and iso=100 or there abouts. That is because you have good judgement... viva working together with your camera.

wilsondl2 Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska

Talk about old - I have forgotten more than most of the people on the Hog will ever know about photography. But that's the problem I've forgotten it. - Dave

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

wilsondl2 .... my reply...aaaaa humph,,, well it was a good one... if i recall what it was i will let you know.... just clicked over the 77 year mark... gulp :XD:
:idea: aaah, but I am alive and healthy :thumbup:

charles brown Loc: Tennesse

Began this great hobby in 1976. Should have stayed with fishing. Anyway, can't remember what I forgot. But do remember that it wasn't easy or cheap then either. At least I think it wasn't, can't remember for sure. Getting old is hard work. Being old sucks.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

Chales Brown, old sucks... Back space works a little, but there ain't no reboot nor page up... I identify often with the android in "Blade Runner" ... all that I have seen, all that I know will disappear like tear drops in the rain.

My life of photography will be right there in the fire along with a sled with the word "Rosebud" written on it. Then I will join Charles Foster Kane... standing at his right hand.

BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA

No, getting old is hard; staying old gets harder the older you get. But being old beats the heck out of the alternative.

Gryffon Loc: Coddenham, Suffolk, England

My uncles, one of whom worked for Fox Photos the other for Reuter told me of a professional photographer who worked with them, an "old timer". He had no training or qualifications. If you asked him what aperture for a particular scene he would hold up his thumb and forefinger to show you the size of the hole to set on your camera (glass plate, half or full plate I think) and he was invariably right.

BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA

If you ask a lot of people the same question today, they'll just hold up their middle finger.....and that is probably too fast an aperture.

charles brown Loc: Tennesse

Being kinda optimistic aren't you. Thinking that they would even know what aperture is. As for the ones who don't own a camera, God only knows how they would respond.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

My first 35mm was a folding German Camera made in Dresden before the great fire, 1940s. Certainly no meters and in 1961 I did not have the $ nor desire to buy a meter. The camera folded up quit small and I could carry it in my Class A USA Army uniform with out the sarge chewing me out. Mogul, I would never have raised my middle finger to him even in salute... he would have broken it.

With no meter I was left to my eye to judge.. well my eye and the chart that came with the (Kodak) film.. soon the chart was part of my auto-response, click, click and a focus then the camera was ready ... only seconds. At ASA of 25 not 250, the photos came out fine most of the time.

The judging of distance also became second nature and had nothing to do with split field, nor auto focus. Looking at today's hyper-focus charts, that is understandable; there is latitude.

While I am an old timer now and do look back with bliss, I do indeed love my new pocket camera. Would I go back to those days (knowing what I know now, of course) yes, indeed I would... taking my new Panasonic ZS20 and computer... certainly... aaa can I take my Epson printer too?

We live in a Tech-Age and we as photographers must keep up and not say our one-mpix camera is the greatest.. and must let it and the meters stand proudly as fragments of history on our home museum shelf.. over there at the end of the collection of Kodak Monographs (small books) on various subjects. Good-by Rosebud; Good-by Kodak... sniff sniff indeed like teardrops in the rain.

BboH Loc: s of 2/21, Ellicott City, MD

One sub-thread that runs through much of this discussion, and underlies the whole idea of "manual" vs "Program" settings is, in my opinion, the "I did it!" vs the camera doing it. Nothing wrong with that - the "I did it!" is a very powerful AND needed component.

However, a camera is a computer - it has a program, the camera's controls, whether manual or Auto/Program whatever, allow the user control of over the computer's program.

To reference only one - look at the code written for Photoshiop which gives the user control over what is done and allows the "I did it !", which is only manunipulating the programs controls. Go look at the free trial of the DxO Pro Optic 8 - it does what a camera does - it looks at he scene, suggests what should be done and then lets you accept its judgement or lets you adjust manual settings - just like a camera.

Again, the "I did it! is certainly important and necessary but I suggest that it is no longer the end-all.