rpavich Loc: West Virginia

Ok....so I needed something to do for a while and i just got a foam head from Amazon...so I decided to rig up an umbrella softbox and do some experimenting.

I did 4 set ups. (all at the 45 deg up and 45 deg to camera left)

1.) 40" umbrella-softbox 1 foot away

2.) 40" umbrella 8 feet away

3.) Bare speedlight 8 feet away

4.) Very small on-speedlight Lumiquest softbox 1 foot (slightly less) away.


Well...I can see one thing right away; the light fall off issue. All of the "up close" lighting has a lot of fall off; the background is dark.

The shots where the light was far away have a light background.

So far so good but what's puzzling me is that this: Shouldn't the "large softbox very close" be much softer shadow transitions than the "softbox 8 feet away" shot?

To me...it doesn't look like it's much different at all.


And the 8 foot away bare speedlight doesn't look substantially different in shadow transition than the 8" away softbox...

Can some pro help me understand this?

GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City

Is there anything to the right of the picture area that can be kicking light back? (acting as reflector)

What were the ambient levels?
Did you have all the lights off?

A guess:
Looks to me like the ambient may have done some fill for you.
If you used manual flash power and just backed the light away, opening up the aperture to compensate allowed some ambient fill.
Add a dash of inverse square law to that as well: Light falls off more slowly the farther away the light is.

Without knowing settings, this is just a guess.
No usable metadata available on your photo.

Now my brain hurts.
I'm going to bed!

ronz Loc: Florida

# 2& 3 appear totally blown out. Without knowing your settings on you speed lights and camera, it is difficult to to say. For sure the dummy heads do not absorb lights like a normal skin would on a live person. One foot and 8 foot are booth out of the range I use for portraits. I usually use my lights about 3-4 ft and of course power down but without know your settings my guess is you just blew out the shots. Closer does mean softer but the correct power must still be applied. Once you know your settings from 8 ft away, to get to f8 at 1/160 th and ISO 200, each foot closer should represent one stop so you can adjust to that. Hope this helps some. Try finding out what your getting at 8 ft.

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

I don't think that they are "blown out" there is plenty of detail int the head...I metered all shots, and adjusted the flash to yield a correct exposure each time.

WAL

Using a bare bulb and not considering the environment is a mistake. Think low ceiling, high ceiling, white walls, and dark walls. The environment and distance would effect with the results.
Soft boxes, close makes the unit effectively larger far makes it seem smaller.
If you can use a larger soft box w/o a problem that is probably the easiest choice. Usually you are looking for a soft broad light source.
Based on your examples I would position the light further forward, in line with the lens.

With digital you can get immediate feedback and experiment at no cost.

jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ

I'm no expert on studio or flash photography, but for the sake of discussion -

Image #1 - Light being so close to subject is lighting subject and not spilling on to the background.

Image #2 - Same light as Image #1 but further seems to be spilling into the background and the angle of the light is lower so there is less harsh shadow on the right side of the face, wrapping around the subject more with softer shadow under the chin.

Image #3 - Bare speedlight has more harsh shadows as expected compared to the umbrella/softbox (I'm not sure which). Light spilling to background.

Image #4 - Small speedlight softbox is at a more steep angle causing harsh shadow under left part of chin and left side of nose. No light spilling into background.

I've never experimented with this but if I did I'd probably try moving the lights 3-4 feet away and adjust aperture for the DOF of my choosing, then adjust shutter to capture the background exposure of my liking and then shoot the subject adjusting the light as needed. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the more you stop down the less the light will spill into the BG.

I think I'll look for a bust or mannequin head for practice too. This is an excellent idea for increasing your skills. It would be nice if they had some kind of fake eye so that you can see if your catch-light is good or not.

Country's Mama Loc: Michigan

What if she stuck a marble in the mannequin? That should give a catch light.

gdwsr Loc: Northern California

Rpavich, I was hoping that one of the "studio pros" would join in on this. Thanks Ronz for your observations). But for what it worth, I think you are getting exactly what you were anticipating out of the soft box. That is, when it is close it wraps the light better and has less harsh shadows. (By definition, it has to; it can't violate laws of physics). If you look real close at the shadow transition (like the nose shadow) you will see the transition is much more gradual when the light is close than it is at 8 feet. Do not be confused by the amount of contrast between the LB exposed part and the ambient light (shadow) areal just the sharpness of the line that separates the two.

What I think is confusing you is that when you have the main light 8 feet away you have to use a longer (more open) exposure so that the secondary light source (ambient, umbrellas, speedlight, etc..) have more of an effect of exposing the shadows. Not knowing the settings on all of the secondary light sources it is hard to tell what light(s) are set to open up the shadows. But if you didn't dial down all of the other light sources equal to the main light (as Ronz discusses) this is what you will get. If you do make the adjustment you will be able to see the true difference between the close and far soft box.

Hope that makes sence.

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

You are correct....I just showed this to a photog friend of mine and he said virtually the same thing you did...I was getting confused by the amount of light/shadow and not really seeing the transitions.

thanks for explaining that...

CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver

Yes- the hard light-soft light thing is defined by the highlight to shadow transition. That is IT. Your close images definitely have that transition over a longer distance than the others. All the rest is irrelevant.

You are also giving a great example of the Inverse square law.

hughburden Loc: UK

"So far so good but what's puzzling me is that this: Shouldn't the "large softbox very close" be much softer shadow transitions than the "softbox 8 feet away" shot?
To me...it doesn't look like it's much different at all.
And the 8 foot away bare speedlight doesn't look substantially different in shadow transition than the 8" away softbox..."

Hi rpavitch
In both examples you give the light is bouncing off the background and thus acting as a weak soft 'fill in light'. The background received enough light to have an effect because you had to increase exposure as compared to when you had the light close to the head.

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

That's where we both are getting confused...we are getting confused by the apparent fill and ratios...not the transition at the nose (for example)

Once I realized what I was supposed to be looking at...then it became clear.

hughburden Loc: UK

'laughs' confused or not, I stand by the proposition that the 'fill in' will affect what you are observing. Black velvet behind the head to flag the background and repeat the experiment would confirm one way or other.This will mean you are comparing all the lighting situations equally in the manner you intend- apples with apples. I would also flag the ceiling and floor to make the experiment valid.

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

I guess I'm agreeing with you that on the near and far shots, because of fall off, there is a LOT of difference in how the ratios between light and shadow look, but as Captn pointed out...the transitions are correct for what should be happening. (which is the ONLY thing that my OP asked about)

If you want to call that something other than being confused...I'm ok with that...though I was confused about it...



Edited to add: before I put this dead horse to sleep, I cropped out JUST the nose shadow transition to make it easier to see the effect that the Captn is talking about.

dhealer

A speed light by it self will render more contrast than the same speedlight bounced off the ceiling or a light colored wall. It is not so much the intensity of the light, but the size of the light that will render softer transitions from bright to shadows. To get softer transitions, make the light source or the main light larger.