greymule Loc: Colorado

I'll be leaving for Arches and Canyonlands tomorrow AM, and I'd like some comments and pointers for photographer's etiquette when shooting in a crowded location with very limited timing for the "best" image.

I plan to arrive at my chosen areas at least a half-hour early to pick my spot and set up. What is a reasonable "zone of comfort" space between one and the next photographer? Ask to share a particular spot? How and when? People setting up in your field of vision or encroaching on your space? Situations such as, but not limited to these. I'm not sure what to expect, having never tried to capture images in a crowded environment.

I don't want to have to pack my pistol or nun-chucks, or create a hostile environment. I also don't want to ruin the beauty of the experience.

Any and all tips, comments, anecdotes or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Rick

St3v3M Loc: 35,000 feet

Be curtious, ask questions, but don't get walked on and loose your shot.

Wahawk Loc: NE IA

Get 'different' viewpoints of the scenes! All the 'crowds' are just taking the same pics you can buy on postcards! Find a unique perspective and then you won't have to worry about the crowding.

Photographer Jim Loc: Rio Vista, CA

Great question, and i commend you for asking. This is an issue that is too often ignored and can lead to many unpleasant encounters, minor scuffles, and the occasional need to seek medical attention.

Personal space is dependent on two factors; physical space of the location, and number of photographers present, and your time of arrival. Three, thats three factors.

A good example would be shooting Mesa Arch in Canyonlands. You will need to arrive at least one hour before sunrise if you hope to get a choice spot. (<- serious). Expect a small convention to convene during the 30 minutes before actual sunup. By arriving very early, you get first dibs on the best angle; everyone afterward has to make due with what is left. Their loss.

The physical space at Mesa Arch is small in comparison to many other popular locations, therefore personal space is somewhat reduced. The unwritten law of etiquette is that you start with a radius of approximately 6 feet around your tripod when there are five photographers or less. but this shrinks as more photographers arrive. At Mesa Arch, this usually results in the radius shrinking to about three inches at the final time of shooting. It helps somewhat if you can learn to shoot with elbows held out wide.

Note: placing your camera bag along side of your tripod is considered bad form, and can on some occasions result in another photographer being forced to "accidentally" spill a little of his Starbuck's Vente Latte Americano over your prized 24-105 L lens. Don't complain, you brought it on yourself. (This is, however, a good strategy to keep in mind should you be the victim of such an inconsideration yourself).

Newbie photographers with point and shoot cameras will often break the rules of etiquette and step forward of the tripod demarcation line. Despite their social faux pas, one should not resort to obscene name calling. A simple "Hey you. Move your arse", will suffice.

Never, under any circumstances, tolerate other photographers speaking directly to you. Getting the best shot is serious business, and allows no room for any social pleasantries at all. If someone, feigning politeness, asks, "Do you mind if I place my tripod here next to yours"? A gruff, "Yes, I mind. Now bug off", should get your point across. Attempts at social small talk such as, "Beautiful morning, isn't it"? should be responded to with the standard "I've seen better", or better still, "Don't get out much do you buddy"?

Understand this, the majority of photographers are unschooled in proper group shooting protocol. They insist on using politeness, common sense, consideration for their fellow shooters, and social harmony above the serious business of getting the perfect shot. They seem to relish in sharing the experience of being someplace special with others who likewise cherish an affinity for photography. Don't become one of them. Stand your ground and let the others fend for themselves. You have no obligation to help others have a pleasant and successful outing.

And remember, carry a Starbuck's Vente Latte Americano.

:twisted:

greymule Loc: Colorado

Understand this, the majority of photographers are unschooled in proper group shooting protocol. They insist on using politeness, common sense, consideration for their fellow shooters, and social harmony above the serious business of getting the perfect shot. They seem to relish in sharing the experience of being someplace special with others who likewise cherish an affinity for photography. Don't become one of them. Stand your ground and let the others fend for themselves. You have no obligation to help others have a pleasant and successful outing.

And remember, carry a Starbuck's Vente Latte Americano.

:twisted:[/quote]

Thanks, Jim. Your post was spot on for the info I was seeking. Sort of a no nonsense/ common sense approach, I guess. I tend to be one of the

>>"They insist on using politeness, common sense, consideration for their fellow shooters, and social harmony above the serious business of getting the perfect shot. They seem to relish in sharing the experience of being someplace special with others who likewise cherish an affinity for photography."<<

people. Good to know I'm to leave social graces behind, but not pack my heat. Mesa arch was a perfect example because of the limited "perfect" view.

My plan is to scout out Mesa Arch the afternoon before and figure out where I want to be. And, an hour or earlier will be my goal.

BTW- How do you keep a Starbuck's Vente Latte Americano hot for that long? I guess I better get a thermos.

Thanks, Light Brother.

jrb1213 Loc: McDonough GEorgia

I read this before I headed into a class of tough kids (I teach at an alternative school) I needed the laugh, thanks

photoninja1 Loc: Tampa Florida

To choose the best angle, take a compass and download a copy of the photographer's ephemeris to your phoneto get the bearing to the sunrise from your location. Otherwise you may find yourself scrambling to change your spot at the last minute.

Photographer Jim Loc: Rio Vista, CA

LOL, glad you enjoyed the advice. The unfortunate truth is I have met photographers who tend toward the policies I discribed. Fortunately they are few and far between.

Actually, you will be served well to get to Mesa Arch at least an hour early. The space fills up pretty early for the traditional shot. Once the sun has risen and done its thing, people clear out very quickly. Take a few minutes and scramble up the rocks to the left of the arch so you are above it. There is a nice shot there, one most photographers miss (see below).

As to keeping your vente Americano hot, don't be concerned. Its temperature is not as important as having an aim that is true! :-P

Enjoy your time around Moab. It is one of my favorite places. I've spent many days there and have yet to photograph everything I wanted to. It is truly one of the great places to visit. Enjoy.

Above Mesa Arch; Canyonlands Island in the Sky, Utah

Photographer Jim Loc: Rio Vista, CA

I taught high school special education for 34 years. I understand..

Teacher Loc: Alabama

Photographed Moab area several times. You can't find a bad place. Just be somewhere at sunrise and sundown. You can download the photo times and use them as an AM/PM guideline. BTW Don't forget the petroglyphs/hieroglyphs! The best ones are kept secret and not advertised (vandalism) so check with Moab Photo Tours. Long drive from Moab to Mesa Arch so leave town early and take a snack. Dead Horse point is an incredible view. You can also find some awesome dinosaur tracks north of Moab. The only crowds I dealt with were at Mesa (polite group)and a big crowd at Delicate Arch. Patience was the key there. Beautiful place, have fun.

Ka2azman Loc: Tucson, Az

To keep elbow room for your shot just do as the Romans did on their chariots. You know those blades tied to the wheels. Only you tie them to the sides to your tripod. The offending person gets too close, off comes their leg. Of course you might have to render first aid, just to show political correctness. The others around you just might praise you because you just gave them a little room by opening up one spot too.

Milvtx Loc: Midland,Texas

You guys are great!

charles brown Loc: Tennesse

Photographer Jim:
Love the guidance, and i thought I had been doing it wrong all these years. As for me always keep my stun gun handy, an essential part of the photographers kit. Be sure to get whipped cream with that coffee, a little foam around the mouth can work wonders for keeping others at bay :thumbup:

jcsnell Loc: SW Ohio

I was in Arches/Canyonlands last April, beautiful place. I went to Mesa and it was hard to get a good shot because of the crowd. It is a small area and hard to get set up for what you want. Many people
will walk in front of you etc. I decided that the best option was to go to Dead Horse point the next day at sunrise. There was only about 10-12 others there and plenty of space for everyone. Fantastic place at sunrise. Enjoy your trip

Rachele175

I love this forum. Will try the chariot thing someday, but is it socially acceptable to shove a few point-and-shooters to the side? Sometimes it's just so tempting when I tell them to move and they act like they don't speak English.