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Jan 26, 2022 20:03:02   #
stanikon wrote:
You don't need all those bodies and probably don't need all those lenses. Sell some of them, then you can give the firewood away for free to people who can't afford the alternatives. Of course, you will need to see a financial statement or tax return before you give it to them; otherwise you might be giving it to someone who can afford the alternatives but is just too cheap to pay for them. My neighbor spends all summer stockpiling firewood to heat his house over the winter. He has a nice, modern house with central propane heat but is just too cheap to pay for the butane. He would rather turn his time and sweat equity into heat than do something else with his time and pay for the propane. I would venture to say that much of your product goes to exactly those sorts of people except that they lack the resources to cut their own.

Two more points and then I am done with this:
- it's bout, not bought
- I don't care if you have 5 camera bodies or 500, it is irrelevant to this discussion, as is what you pay for them.
You don't need all those bodies and probably don't... (show quote)


Actually the word according to the dictionary is bought
Bought=purchase
Bout=boxing match
My needs and purchases are none of your concern and I do give away firewood if the family truly cannot afford it and needs it.
People in TN are known for helping neighbors in need.
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Jan 26, 2022 15:37:20   #
stanikon wrote:
Your father-in-law is fortunate. Most people who sell firewood are not in his (or your) position; they are trying to feed their families. Don't lump them in with you. They are doing it to make a buck to meet expenses. I did NOT claim it has to be counted on for the everyday living expenses for everyone. I specifically said "most."

Go back a re-read what I said. I did NOT say "you have a very small window to get the wood cut once it's down." What I said was, "Those downed trees need to be harvested within a certain period of time or they are useless." With your vast experience surely you have seen a rotten tree or two. Seasoning is not the same as rot. Cut wood needs to be kept dry while it seasons for a reason.

So. since it is your position that folks selling firewood are greedy and in it for whatever they can gouge out of a gullible customer, it is nice to know that you sell wood for ½ or less of what others charge. Is that correct? If not, how do you (or your father-in-law) determine the price? By your standard you should be giving it away. You don't, because you have a need for the revenue. Given that the prices of cameras and tractors are going up, aren't you going to need more money for those? Based on your previous remarks I am guessing that you are charging very, very little for firewood. Where do you get the rest of the money for your habit?

Lastly, you don't know me or anything about me so you have no idea how many cords of wood I have "under my belt." Please don't be so arrogant.
Your father-in-law is fortunate. Most people who ... (show quote)


We sell the wood for 70.00 a rick or facecord as it is also known which translates to $140.00 per cord.
This is actually less than most around here
It's also more than enough to cover the cost of my photography hobby because while I do have the occasional bought of GAS I have always been intelligent enough to buy pre owned and enjoy the substantial savings.
Currently the camera collection is at five bodies and numerous lenses.
I generally have a hard time letting go of the camera even though I have a better one in the collection.
I also have several upper tier lenses for the Canon bodies.
I like the quality that comes with the l glass even the older ones.
My new journey is going to be with Sony as I got my a7rii which is a couple generations back but still a great camera.
Sure we could charge as much as everyone else does for wood however many folks who heat with wood do so because they can't afford the alternatives.
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Jan 26, 2022 14:26:34   #
stanikon wrote:
That's an excellent way to avoid my point. Cost of living has everything to do with a business like this. Do you think the guy selling firewood by the side of the road or hauling it to your house in a pickup is thinking about EBITDA, gross profit or ROI? Give me a break. The reason cost of living is germane is because that is exactly what the seller is trying to cover. When the cost of clothes, food and utilities goes up he needs to earn more to pay for that. Walmart is not exactly his business model.

I live on two acres that I personally cleared from virgin forest by hand by myself. I am well aware of the labor required to limb and buck a downed tree. Are you? So how much is that labor worth? That's the real question.

And yes, I know about seasoning wood before burning it. I have lived in the same house for 40+ years with a wood-burning fireplace and have only had to have the chimney cleaned one time. What does that have to do with this discussion? Is the guy's labor worth more or less depending on whether his wood is seasoned or not? Your question is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
That's an excellent way to avoid my point. Cost o... (show quote)


Since you are asking if I am aware of the work involved I will have to inform you that I assist my relatives in their firewood business on a regular basis.
What makes my remarks on the seasoning of wood was your insisting that you have a very small window to get the wood cut once it's down and I pointed out the fact that you actually have to wait to burn the wood for safety.
I can guarantee that I have more cords of wood cut under my belt than you or most people on the site.
My side incomes are how I aquire my photo equipment.
However the firewood business my wife's dad has is a means to support his tractor collection and his garden.
It's not counted on for the everyday living expenses like you claim it has to be.
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Jan 26, 2022 06:54:43   #
Red6 wrote:
I used to live in an older house built in the early 1950s which had a flue and chimney. I thought about getting a wood-burning stove to heat the house until my homeowner's insurance company told me they would not insure me.

I went with a forced air propane furnace in addition to propane-fueled fireplace logs that did not depend on electricity to work.

Great combination and one of the best decisions I have ever made.


This is because of the fact that most flue fires stay undetected until they break through often into the attic space where it spreads across the ceilings until it drops down into the house.
They can be very bad and often end up with a total loss.
My wife's parents had one a few years ago and even though the fire was mostly contained in one room.
They lost several thousand dollars in possessions.
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Jan 26, 2022 05:26:41   #
jerryc41 wrote:
From YouTube last night - TheTechieGuy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAlz59koSnY

PortableApps - This lets you install apps (programs) onto a flash drive, so you can use them on whatever computer you choose. I installed the program itself, but I haven't added any programs to the flash drive.
https://portableapps.com/

Hirens Boot CD PE - utility programs on a flash drive - I couldn't find a way to download it. It's at 2:15 in the video above.
https://www.hirensbootcd.org/download/

Tails for incognito browsing. https://tails.boum.org/ 2:50 in video above.
From YouTube last night - TheTechieGuy - https://w... (show quote)


I've been using the Hirens boot CD for several years and it is a good utility tool.
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Jan 26, 2022 05:09:14   #
stanikon wrote:
I don't care if the trees are free. Most wood cutters/sellers harvest downed trees as cheaply as they can get them, from whatever source. Those downed trees need to be harvested within a certain period of time or they are useless. So the cutter/seller may actually get paid to remove the trees that he then sells as firewood. So what? Does that mean he should charge less than market price for his product? And who are you to decide what his labor is worth? If you want to source and harvest your own firewood, fine and dandy. But don't disparage others for getting as much as they can for what they are selling to people who cannot or will not do that.

If you paid attention in Economics 101 (I'm beginning to doubt that you did) you learned that the value of a product is only determined when the seller and the buyer agree on the price. If the wood cutter offers his product for $X and the buyer agrees to pay $X then that is the value of the product. It's not up to you to decide that charging $X is avarice.

Even if the wood cutter is paid to remove the trees and then sells them as firewood, you cannot deny that his other costs are going up. Gas, food, utilities are all increasing at an exponential rate. Those are part of his costs as well.

We could get into a much longer discussion about this but I don't think it would do any good.
I don't care if the trees are free. Most wood cut... (show quote)

This is a good way for you to admit that you are not a business person.
Cost of living does not generally factor in with a business like this.
It's not the sole means of income and they usually operate at the absolute minimum of cost.
While I am quite familiar with the established business theories I also am acutely aware that many people in the business of firewood are not therefore they don't apply the economic theory BTW are you aware that firewood is supposed to season before you burn it otherwise you have soot and creosote building up in the chimney which is the biggest cause of chimney fire
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Jan 25, 2022 14:28:46   #
stanikon wrote:
I respectfully disagree. Their operating costs are not decreasing. Most of it, of course, is in gasoline for the truck and chainsaw and, if they have one, a gas-powered splitter. Where is the price of gas going down? Which of their "operation expenses" is declining? And how, exactly, do you know they have the funds to live on? And what, pray tell, do you feel is their rightful standard of living? Who, exactly, are you to dictate what that standard of living should be? Their living expenses are going up just like everyone else's and they have to cover that. The people I see out trying to sell firewood are not living in fancy houses and are not driving nice, top-of-the-line trucks. They are out selling the result of their hard work to people who either cannot or will not put in that hard work and I say they have a right to charge whatever the market will bear.

As for me being "one of those who feel like you are entitled to a bigger piece of the pie just because you want to have more" you should do some research and ask a few questions before shooting your mouth off. I am retired and on a fixed income. My "piece of the pie" is fixed. Would I like to have a bigger income? You bet. It would be nice to be able to have and do some things that I cannot now afford, but I certainly do not feel like I am entitled to it. So please tell me: when was the last time you turned down a raise in pay?
I respectfully disagree. Their operating costs ar... (show quote)


Truthfully I turned down a pay increase just last month because I didn't want to t away from the funds of the organization that contracted my service.
I actually turn down several high paying projects to do free visits.
This is also from someone who exists on a fixed and limited income due to my forced retirement.
The reason why is because I know that I am well and fairly compensated for my service and I am also not the only one that is offering the same service.
From that end it frequently makes sense to eat the increase and maintain the client.
I had to edit because I realized I didn't answer your main question about what costs are decreasing.
The cost that is decreasing at least in my area is the raw materials that being the trees.
The last couple years we have had so many severe storms which has knocked down trees into yards driveways parking lots etc that people are actually hiring people to clear it out by cutting the wood.
This is a substantial savings over having to pay for the right to cut.
It's further decreasing the amount that the cutter is getting paid to clear it out.
Granted not every downed tree is going to be good for heating but the guys cutting it as firewood do not have to take that one.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:57:42   #
stanikon wrote:
How would this invalidate my point? He/she still has to pay for clothes, groceries and utilities whether using a primary income or second income or both. All of those are going up at an accelerating rate, rapidly outpacing the increases, if any, in primary income. He/she is not trading labor and wood for money just for the sport of it.


My point which you have chosen to ignore is the fact that their operation expenses are declining therefore they have the funds to live on but obviously you are one of those who feel like you are entitled to a bigger piece of the pie just because you want to have more
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Jan 24, 2022 11:52:11   #
stanikon wrote:
A cord is no longer a cord. Used to be that when a cord of wood was properly stacked you couldn't get a piece of paper in it because it was so tight. No longer. Now you are lucky to get ¾ of an actual cord.

And talking about pricing...you have a valid point about the cost of gas and expenses for the guy selling the wood, but remember he is buying groceries and paying utilities, etc., and all of those are going up up up. He has to make enough money to pay for all of those things.


The majority of the people who cut and sell firewood do it as a second income but the main thing is supply and demand.
Around here we have no shortage of wood that mother nature has already taken down so it just needs to be cut to length and split.
A decent used saw costs a couple hundred dollars and a power splitter can be had for about $500.00
So even the startup cost is not substantial.
This is also why a cord of wood costs around $125-150 delivered and stacked.
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Jan 24, 2022 11:32:58   #
idaholover wrote:
Apparently they haven’t figured out how to enforce them.


Although it would serve as a perfect reminder that gun control laws don't stop criminals who are going to break the law and k**l.
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Jan 24, 2022 08:56:34   #
mwalsh wrote:
So true!

LoL


I'm glad my sarcasm was that obvious lolw
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Jan 24, 2022 08:55:38   #
HOHIMER wrote:
What type wood do you use for your bbq?
What items do you sell? Do you do Mail orders?


My best seller is my pork butt slow smoked for about 24 hours with a mix of hickory and peach.
I'm not able to do mail order due to the complexity of shipping food items.
Plus it's all I can do most times just to keep up with the demand locally.
I'm going to be running ribs for Valentine's day and I already have a hundred orders to fill.
I'm going to have to rent another smoker to go along with the two I have now.
Ribs take around 5-6 hours and both of my smokers put together can only handle 25 slabs for cooking but I'll be using one just for keeping it warm until pick up.
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Jan 24, 2022 08:38:16   #
But DC has very strong gun control laws surely this can't be happening.lol
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Jan 24, 2022 08:32:40   #
NMGal wrote:
Beware! There is such a thing as a “face cord”. 2’ x 4’ x 8’. A half cord.


Around here we call that a rick
I have a guy who will deliver and stack a rick for just $70.00.
I sell bbq from the house so I am a very good customer.
I'll go through a rick every few weeks just cooking.
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Jan 22, 2022 10:01:39   #
fourlocks wrote:
Very interesting. How did that work for your grandfather? Did someone offer to pay his way to the U.S. in return for his two year's work? Or was it less voluntary than that?


Generally the agreement would have been much less straightforward than that.
The person would think they were agreeing to work off a simple debt however upon arrival they would learn that while they were working on the ticket cost they had to live in a house like that and they had to pay rent for it which was usually a very substantial part of the earnings.
Usually they were required also to buy provisions through the landlord at ridiculous markup.
I have ancestors just a few generations back who were in a similar situation but from Scotland.
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