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Where does a crop sensor body fit into a kit of FF cameras?
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Mar 7, 2019 05:52:00   #
ceh1024 Loc: Lutz, FL
 
LFingar wrote:
Some time back, before I sold my 7DII, I did a comparison between it and my 5DIV. The 7DII is 20mp, the 5DIV is 30mp. With the lens, a 100-400 L II, mounted on a tripod and with the same settings on both cameras I just switched out the cameras and shot the same target. Rock, fence post, whatever. Don't remember. Cropping the ff photo to the size of the crop sensor photo showed a distinct difference between the two. The resolution of the crop sensor was noticeably better. Not surprising. Just doing the math shows that the crop sensor has higher pixel density then the cropped area of the ff sensor.
Some time back, before I sold my 7DII, I did a com... (show quote)


Just out of curiosity have you tried using the the EF EOS R adapter with any of your aps-c lenses with your EOS R?

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Mar 7, 2019 06:07:24   #
Largobob
 
ken_stern wrote:
Suggestion -- Save your money -- Crop your ff image as much as his camera cropped his -- You will now be "just as close" as his shot !!


This is an ill-informed comment. Steve Perry (among others) have shown that generally, cropping a FF image will reduce the total resolution much lower than the equivalent image taken on a crop sensor camera.

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Mar 7, 2019 06:19:56   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
Recently my neighbor and I both took shots of an eagle perched behind our houses. His was a better version because he got a closer shot (crop sensor) with decent results. I was using a FF with a 70-200 f4 because that was there to grab at the time. By the time I got my 200-500 mounted, the eagle "flew the coop". Later I viewed Steve Perry's free video on cropping and and I am reaching the conclusion that a crop body deserves a place in my kit when cropping a FF image will yield less satisfactory results. I also note that Steve includes a D500 in his kit. Hogger thoughts welcome.
Recently my neighbor and I both took shots of an e... (show quote)


You can put more "effective Megapixels" on the subject with a D500 than with say a D5 using the same lens from the same distance.

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Mar 7, 2019 07:00:36   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
Recently my neighbor and I both took shots of an eagle perched behind our houses. His was a better version because he got a closer shot (crop sensor) with decent results. I was using a FF with a 70-200 f4 because that was there to grab at the time. By the time I got my 200-500 mounted, the eagle "flew the coop". Later I viewed Steve Perry's free video on cropping and and I am reaching the conclusion that a crop body deserves a place in my kit when cropping a FF image will yield less satisfactory results. I also note that Steve includes a D500 in his kit. Hogger thoughts welcome.
Recently my neighbor and I both took shots of an e... (show quote)


Just get the D850 and get rid of the rest, no need for two bodies.

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Mar 7, 2019 07:01:42   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
My main cameras are a D750 and a D5100. I like having both sensor sizes.

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Mar 7, 2019 07:07:53   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
jerryc41 wrote:
My main cameras are a D750 and a D5100. I like having both sensor sizes.


The 850D approaches the pixel density of the cropped cameras so when you crop you lose very little resolution. I use a 5DSR and that would be my only camera except I had bought a 5DIV prior to purchasing the 5DSR and the 5DIV is more advanced in other areas. That is not the case with Nikon, the 850D is their flagship in all areas.

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Mar 7, 2019 07:24:04   #
Bugs
 
i own the same two cameras (5D sr and the 77D. Both). I shoot landscapes and birds from a pod on the 5D and podded high school football games with the 77D, shooting often at a 12,800 ISO because
of dark stadia. Both are awesome cameras. Got the 77d as temporary replacement due to soaking of m 6D, but permanent now as each has their place.

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Mar 7, 2019 08:45:08   #
throughrhettseyes Loc: Rowlett, TX
 
What model and make camera do you have? If it is a Nikon Full Frame then you have a menu option to switch it into the crop mode. Try it you get instant 1.5 magnification. I have a D500 and love it. I don't find I need a full frame camera. There are several panorama and stitching techniques that can mimic full frame and medium format photos.

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Mar 7, 2019 08:47:39   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
I've got both. I use my APS-C for macro & distant wildlife and my FF for most everything else.

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Mar 7, 2019 08:57:01   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
Recently my neighbor and I both took shots of an eagle perched behind our houses. His was a better version because he got a closer shot (crop sensor) with decent results. I was using a FF with a 70-200 f4 because that was there to grab at the time. By the time I got my 200-500 mounted, the eagle "flew the coop". Later I viewed Steve Perry's free video on cropping and and I am reaching the conclusion that a crop body deserves a place in my kit when cropping a FF image will yield less satisfactory results. I also note that Steve includes a D500 in his kit. Hogger thoughts welcome.
Recently my neighbor and I both took shots of an e... (show quote)


What lens was the neighbor using?

As someone already mentioned, a big advantage of the cropped sensor is how many pixels you can get on the subject. But this assumes the same length lens. A FF with a longer lens can get the same number of larger pixels on the subject. It really comes down to $$. Can you afford a high quality long lens for your FF camera?

I still shoot APS-C. However, I also have recently realized that I am useless (well that may be a bit strong) for hand held over a 500mm equivalent. So I could handle a FF with a 500mm lens but not the same length on an APS-C having an 800mm equivalent (I shoot Canon). That would change on a tripod of course.

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Mar 7, 2019 09:12:40   #
LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY
 
pmorin wrote:
Notwithstanding brand of camera, which has the widest field of view and most pixels with the same lens at the same focal length, APSC or FF? I have both and this will help me when I (frequently) pack for trips.


With the same lens at the same focal length FF will give you the wider field of view. If you are using the full view area of both photos then the camera with the most MP will give you the largest number of pixels overall. In the test I mentioned that would have been the 30 MP 5DIV over the 20 MP 7DII. The advantage of crop sensors for relatively small targets, such as birds, where you would have to crop a FF image to get the same view area as the crop sensor, is pixel density. In almost every case the crop sensor will have the advantage. There are exceptions. If, for example, you were comparing an older crop sensor with 12 MP vs a 5DS with 50 MP then the FF may come out ahead, although, I haven't done the math to see. Also, how you use the image can make a difference. If you are printing 4x6 vs 11x17 photos you may not notice the difference.
It comes down to pixel density of the sensor, how much of the sensor area you are using, and, to a degree, how you are viewing the image.

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Mar 7, 2019 09:15:49   #
rond-photography Loc: Connecticut
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
Recently my neighbor and I both took shots of an eagle perched behind our houses. His was a better version because he got a closer shot (crop sensor) with decent results. I was using a FF with a 70-200 f4 because that was there to grab at the time. By the time I got my 200-500 mounted, the eagle "flew the coop". Later I viewed Steve Perry's free video on cropping and and I am reaching the conclusion that a crop body deserves a place in my kit when cropping a FF image will yield less satisfactory results. I also note that Steve includes a D500 in his kit. Hogger thoughts welcome.
Recently my neighbor and I both took shots of an e... (show quote)


If you are doing a lot of birding, the D500 makes a lot of sense. On that camera your 200-500 becomes 300 to 750, and the 70 to 200 becomes a 105 to 300 - not a bad investment.

I know a few birders that do this. The advantages of a FF camera are not coming into play for the bird photos. That is, your DOF will not be a lot different on a FF vs Crop with that long lens; you are not likely shooting birds in low light where a higher ISO would be too noisy (and the D500 is not terrible there anyway), so, if you can afford it, the D500 might be the best choice for your birding!

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Mar 7, 2019 09:17:29   #
LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY
 
ceh1024 wrote:
Just out of curiosity have you tried using the the EF EOS R adapter with any of your aps-c lenses with your EOS R?


Don't have any EF-S lenses to try. Based on the performance of my EF lenses on the EOS R I would say that the EF-S lenses should perform excellently. The adapter just provides proper spacing. There are no optics in it to alter lens performance and the auto focus of the EOS R is the best I have seen. My EF lenses work better on my EOS R then on my 5DIV.

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Mar 7, 2019 09:27:42   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
LFingar wrote:
With the same lens at the same focal length FF will give you the wider field of view. If you are using the full view area of both photos then the camera with the most MP will give you the largest number of pixels overall. In the test I mentioned that would have been the 30 MP 5DIV over the 20 MP 7DII. The advantage of crop sensors for relatively small targets, such as birds, where you would have to crop a FF image to get the same view area as the crop sensor, is pixel density. In almost every case the crop sensor will have the advantage. There are exceptions. If, for example, you were comparing an older crop sensor with 12 MP vs a 5DS with 50 MP then the FF may come out ahead, although, I haven't done the math to see. Also, how you use the image can make a difference. If you are printing 4x6 vs 11x17 photos you may not notice the difference.
It comes down to pixel density of the sensor, how much of the sensor area you are using, and, to a degree, how you are viewing the image.
With the same lens at the same focal length FF wil... (show quote)


I have done the math and it comes out to multiplying factor of 2.48 for a Canon and a bit larger number for a Nikon. For Canon it is 35x24/22x14.8, the 5DSR has about the same pixel density as the 7DII and actually a bit less than the newer Canon crops however the 5DSR does not have a low pass filter which is a good thing for capturing detail. A big downside of the 5DSR is that if you are shooting HS shutter and shooting RAW you are going to get 2 frames per second or less.

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Mar 7, 2019 09:41:24   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
LFingar wrote:
Don't have any EF-S lenses to try. Based on the performance of my EF lenses on the EOS R I would say that the EF-S lenses should perform excellently. The adapter just provides proper spacing. There are no optics in it to alter lens performance and the auto focus of the EOS R is the best I have seen. My EF lenses work better on my EOS R then on my 5DIV.


The thing about using EF-S lenses on your full frame is you will have some really bad vignette issues as I don't think that the EF-S lenses will completely cover the sensor with the image circle. There are some excellent EF-S lenses out there but I am not so sure that they are will suited for the R.

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