Heather Iles Loc: UK, Somerset

Wow! Where was that photo taken? And very straight too.

GrahamO

Considering your budget I’d recommend the Canon 24mm f2.8 IS. It is a vast improvement on the old EF 24mm 2.8 (Non IS) which I don’t specially recommend. Although you already have 24/105 f4, the 24mm 2.8 IS has better all round optical quality than the zoom as well as possibly better image stabilisation. It’s also a lot lighter and very much faster than the zoom. 24mm is in my opinion the most useful single landscape focal length on full frame. The Canon 35mm f2 IS is an even better lens but not quite as wide and a little more expensive. (I own all these lenses and seldom use my EF 24 / 105 zoom now I have primes although the zoom is an OK lens with some distortion.
Disregarding your budget, you can’t go wrong with the Canon EF 16 / 35 f4 IS which is very good and useful on your 7D as well as full frame. As someone already mentioned the EFS 10 /18 IS is handy but only for your 7D. Alternatively just keep your $500 and spend it on travel to locations, which is an even better idea as you can only carry so much stuff around at one time.

GrahamO

Regarding the EFS 10 / 18 zoom. It will NOT fit on the 6D (or my 5D4 full frame) Al also has the math mixed up. I have one for my APSC Canon 80D. EFS lenses are designed to NOT fit Canon full frame DSLRs as they may interfere with the mirror. EFS lenses will however with an EF adapter fit on the new full frame mirrorless Canon R as it has no mirror but then they automatically crop to APSC but with lower resolution using only part of the full frame sensor.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Doubling down on the image circle crop thing I see.

Explain, with examples, how putting a 10mm APS-C lens - aka one that produces a smaller image circle on a larger sensor - does not provide a "cropped" image, similar to the field of view of a longer focal length.

Al is 100% correct. If you could put a crop sensor lens on a full frame camera, it would likely not cover the full frame, and you'd either have to use a crop mode (Nikon), or you'd have to crop the parts not covered by the lens - in any case, this would be a reduction of field of view. When a crop camera is used, the reduction of field of view is often referred to as "more reach" and in Canon speak a 100mm lens on a crop camera offers a field of view equivalent to a 160mm lens, even though the actual image magnification is exactly the same. You are just seeing less of the image - not at all any different than if you cropped the image in camera or in post.

When you attach a crop lens on a full frame Nikon or Sony (and maybe others) it automatically goes into a crop mode senses the lens and reduces the pixel height and width to APS-C, to avoid mechanical vignetting. I guess you are having trouble with this because in most circumstances you can't do this using an EF-S lens. But keep reading - that is not entirely true.

So please illustrate how the "opposite" would be true, and define what you mean by opposite - with either examples that you shoot, or someone who has taken the time to do this and has posted the examples on a web page. I'll bet you didn't know you could hack some EF-S lenses to fit on full frame bodies. This guy shows how it's done using a 10-22mm EF-S:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDQsKIJP1Jc&vl=en

He cautions that the EF-S lens rear element protrudes into the camera further, but that once can remove the plastic cap that prevents the mechanical connection from happening, it allow you to use the lens on a full frame camera, in this case a 5DMkIV. You have to be aware of how far the rear of the lens protrudes into the camera and possible intersection with the mirror. He also explains that the smaller image circle results in a bit of a crop - aka narrower field of view - aka crop factor equivalence of a longer field of view.

These articles pretty much says the same thing:

https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/60730/what-are-the-effects-of-using-a-crop-lens-with-a-full-frame-sensor

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/content/field-view-how-your-lens-and-sensor-collaborate

And this guy explores the mounting of an EF-S lens on a full frame using a short extension tube. However you can't use this setup as infinity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAr9FfFxlqo

I guess the response I am looking for from you is what is the difference in field of view (and crop factor) between using a crop sensor lens on a crop camera and a crop lens on a full frame sensor that is cropped to cover the smaller image circle. The minute you introduce the smaller image circle you also introduce a crop factor. The crop factor for Canon crop cameras is 1.6X. However, the lens in question may cover more, so in that respect, IF you could physically mount the 10-18 lens on a full frame camera, the resulting image may have a slightly lower crop factor.

I've used a 35mm F1.8 DX lens on a full frame camera and at smaller apertures it almost completely covers the full frame sensor, so there would be no crop factor.

I've got my popcorn and beverage - so fire away.

Oh, and by the way, if you can make a convincing illustration, I will gladly offer you my apology. I am not the "last word on photography" and I am always open to learning something new. But I am pretty sure this won't be happening. No need to triple down and resend your mistaken opinion, just provide something new to back up what you have written. No need to get personal.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Do you understand how a shift lens works? This is not how a shift lens works. You are just keeping the camera's sensor parallel to the front of the building, and cropping out the foreground.

dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia

I bought the ef-s 10-18 when it was new and the Sigma was around $600ish (I think) the price wnet down not long after. If I had it to do again, I would get the Sigma 10-20 3.5. It is a good deal.

GrahamO

Still regarding the 10/18 question. Al writes that “the 10/18 will “mound” on a 6D but it will no longer be a 10/18. It will be more like 15/27”.
This is not good or accurate advise for someone seeking lens information.
Al is a little mixed up with the true fact that a 10/18 on a Canon crop camera like the 7D gives a similar angle of view to a DIFFERENT full frame 16mm / 28.8 lens ( if you could find one) mounted on a full frame camera such as a 6D.
It is possible to hack Canon EFS lenses to fit full frame but that is not good advise considering the possibility of mirror damage. I can however safely mount my Sigma 18 / 35 f1.8 Art lens designed for my APSC Canon 80D on my Canon 5D4 full frame. It greatly vignettes on full frame until zoomed to around 35mm when it might just be useable, but that still only gives a 35mm angle of view.

User ID

Taken directly across the street, one lane plus
curbside parking spaces ... if thaz what you're
asking ... IOW about the view and width etc.

If you meant geographically, it's in Troy NY on
River St. The "Mighty Hudson River" is behind
this row of buildings, about 150 feet behind.

.

User ID

It seems you do not understand how a shift
lens works. I doubt that you've ever used a
rising falling shifting front standard. If you
had ever used one, I'd not hafta waste any
bandwidth schooling you on simple stuff.

One uses such a front standard to keep the
camera's sensor parallel to the front of the
building while cropping out the foreground
by rising the front.

If one's camera lacks a rising falling front
standard, using a lens of wider coverage,
and then editing out the lower portion of
the image, follows exactly the very same
principle and thus accomplishes the very
same effect.

=========================

Anyone easily upset by less-than-ultimate
politeness should perhaps read no further.

Do you use a shift lens ? Just what do you
THINK your shift lens is doing ? If you don't
use a shift lens and just parrot stuff you've
read, please put a sock in it. Acoarst I know
how my shift lens works and any other shift
lens will also work exactly the same.

.

par4fore Loc: Bay Shore N.Y.

For landscape 24mm is wide enough to start and you should look to use it all the way to 105. By the way do you realize you have three 50mm lenses. Sell one and get a prime around 20mm.

Bipod

So what. I've seen friendly lions and angry puppies. But it's still a bad idea to climb in the cage with the lions.

Thanks for sharing.

If "you" refers to Ansel Adams, the statement is correct. But who knows the OP's capabilities?
Or what light meter he uses? Or when it was last calbirated? On critical shots in very contrasty stiuations,
it's a good idea for most people to bracket. Burned out detail in highlights cannot be fixed in PhotoShop..

You mean: for any zoom lens. The best hood for a prime is the hood that matches it's angle-of-view.

Images are just images--they don't prove anything.

It's a matter of how large you print.
Fine art landscape photographers tend to print large (for viewing on interior walls, not billboards).
Hence, they need to capture a lot of information, so the print shows detail at the intended viewing distance.
That means the largest available sensor.
There is a limit to pixel density (fab size) and how sharply light can be focused (diffraction).

Those landscape photographers using large format film (e.g., Don McCullin, Bruce Barnbaum) aren't idiots.
(And the resolution of slow/medium speed B&W modern film is superb. So is the dynamic range. Capturing
more resolution than you need makes life much easier.
[/quote]
and there is nothing at all wrong with zoom lenses, as long as you understand their strengths and weaknesses - which is no different for any lens I attach to my camera.[/quote]
"There is nothing at all wrong with X as long as you understand their strengths and weaknesses"
is true of almost anything: paper hats, plastic spoons, nitroglycerin. You're blowing smoke.

If you don't rigorously test your lens, or look at test independent test results, then your impressions are subjective.

If someone needs the convenience of a zoom, or for some other reason can't change lenses,
fine, they should buy one. But otherwise, it's irrational to use a much more complex design
where a simpler design is optically superior. (Of course, any design can be poorly
manufactured or built from inferior materials--but that doesn't make design irrelevant.)

Prime lenses can come much closer to being a diffration-limited optical system than any
zoom can. That's a fact of optical engineering. All zoom designs involve compromises.
All have lot of moving groups. All have a lot of glass--which absorbs light and tints light.
That's the price you pay for convenience--and it's a fact.

Heather Iles Loc: UK, Somerset

Thanks for both replies. I meant geographically.

Keep calm.

Heather

GrahamO

Rather than buy another lens within a budget of $500, perhaps koosh would be better to learn to shoot RAW images instead of Jpeg, assuming he doesn’t already. I’m no expert on recommending software, but for example DXO PhotoLab either stand alone or as an extension to Apple Photos is easy to use and automatically corrects lens distortions as well as haze removal and noise reduction when asked. Then the RAW image (or jepeg if you don’t like the idea of RAW ) can be easily edited. Even possibly taking a couple of lessons, and shooting RAW; this will give vastly improved results over any new lens. Luminar is another option as well as Photoshop Elements. This should be well within koosh’s $500 budget (all depending on what computer he has).

Bipod

Be sure and try the "lens cap remover" digital filter. Very handy if you forget to remove the lens cap.

And if you spend a little more and get the Alchemy package, it will automaticallly tramsute
lead into gold.

Software can do anything, ya' know.

Jagnut07 Loc: South Carolina

Joehel2 - what camera and sensor size were you using? I’ll be going to the same places in August and use a Sony a6500 with an APS-C sensor. I have a 10 - 18/f4. And a 18 - 200/ f4.5 /6.3