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Where Canon is Headed
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Jan 30, 2019 09:16:41   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
liamphotoatl wrote:
So I wanted to ask the folks here. Canon and Nikon released their first Full Frame Mirrorless bodies in late 2018 and they were decent starts for both companies, but were of course lacking compared to Sony's 5 year head start.

A lot of folks are claiming that Canon can never catch Sony but I disagree, especially since Canon has been doing Mirrorless, just not FF. At least their first model the EOS R has Eye AF where Nikon's did not and they are priced closer to Sony.

Now one other thing I wanted to share, I recently attended ImagingUSA 2019 and had a chance to have a lengthy chat with a man from Canon's CPS while my 6D2 was being serviced and although he couldn't give specifics, when I mentioned that I think Canon will surpass Sony in 18-24 months, he smiled and said "Wait till the world sees what we have coming, it will blow people's minds".

What do you think, will Canon catch and surpass Sony or is Canon gasping for air?
So I wanted to ask the folks here. Canon and Nikon... (show quote)


Canon's FF entry seemed to focus on great backward compatibility (using the adapters) with their lenses. Canon's focus on glass will keep them not only relevant, but will propel them in future iterations MICL's.

The advantages of mirrorless are not in the Doo Dahs and ad ons, but in the simplification of the process. I think Canon gets that while other manufactures do not. This will lead Canon to develop (as they always have) Camera/Lens systems that work and achieve the desired results photographers want and need.

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Jan 30, 2019 09:20:23   #
Thorburn Loc: Virginia
 
Well Said and I agree that they will do just that; but when the CEO makes the statement he did it just makes me more cautious.

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Jan 30, 2019 09:34:53   #
Thumper26
 
I have a sinking feeling about the future of photography. The newer generations are not embracing the art. Everything for them is immediate, and then move on. Photography for them is their phone, not an instrument dedicated to taking a picture. DSLR sales have been steadily declining to the point where the market will soon not support the number of companies vying for that market. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see much of a future market.

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Jan 30, 2019 09:52:58   #
jdub82 Loc: Northern California
 
Thumper26 wrote:
I have a sinking feeling about the future of photography. The newer generations are not embracing the art. Everything for them is immediate, and then move on. Photography for them is their phone, not an instrument dedicated to taking a picture. DSLR sales have been steadily declining to the point where the market will soon not support the number of companies vying for that market. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see much of a future market.


I see the opposite happening. Photography is about the photographer, not the instrument. I think because everyone has a camera in their phone, it introduces many more to the art of photography, and they want to advance and see what they can do. While the masses will continue take pictures with their phones, many who are intrigued by photography, will purchase more advanced cameras. Whether through DSLR, mirrorless technology, more advanced cell phone cameras, (and bridge cameras - which are mirrorless also) the photography industry is expanding, not declining. The mirrorless share of the market will continue to increase, and yes, Canon will have a huge part in that as they continue to pursue mirrorless technology for their cameras.

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Jan 30, 2019 09:54:10   #
liamphotoatl Loc: Atlanta, Ga
 
As I told the gentleman from Canon one of the things I like most about them is they wait until a new technology is properly vetted before they put it into a camera. Unlike Sony, and I know they have decent cameras now, Canon doesn't just throw crap into a camera for the wow factor and to be the first to do it. They prefer to wait and release that tech when all the bugs are ironed out and it's ready for consumers. Similar to the approach Apple uses in Smart phones. Companies like Sony and Samsung rush to market and you have phones that get hot, batteries that explode and recalls. Same with Sony's cameras, batteries that are sub par and cameras that overheat and lock up.

Canon is more concerned with their reputation for releasing quality cameras that are durable and reliable in the field. They don't want a customer shooting at say the 2020 games and part way through shooting an event, the camera gets super hot and locks up. They want their consumers to have a fully vetted system to use to make quality images.

Their approach to Mirrorless Full Frame was a more muted release, which is why they got less flak from the community. Nikon does their release for the Z6 & Z7 and basically tell all the "press" there, "Here is our first Mirrorless Full Frame and it's basically a mirrorless D850". And then the camera has 1 card slot and doesn't perform nearly as well as the D850. They over sold the system and took their lumps.

Canon does their release, "Here is our first Mirrorless Full Frame, it's an entry level model, like a mirrorless 6D2". Even though Canon's EOS R has only one card slot, it does at least have some Eye AF as well as Dual Pixel AF and the crowd goes wild.

Totally different business models and Nikon took a lot of lumps on the Z cameras where Canon didn't because they didn't over hype their first release. Canon also was smart enough to release some quality, if over-priced L glass to go with their system right out of the gate.

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Jan 30, 2019 10:03:33   #
Low Budget Dave
 
It is a game of leap-frog. Canon will release something new, then Nikon will release something newer, or faster, (or smaller, or whatever), and then Sony will do the same.

Don't sell your old gear just because some other manufacturer has something better this week. Your favorite manufacturer will "leap" up in a year or so.

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Jan 30, 2019 10:04:06   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
liamphotoatl wrote:
So I wanted to ask the folks here. Canon and Nikon released their first Full Frame Mirrorless bodies in late 2018 and they were decent starts for both companies, but were of course lacking compared to Sony's 5 year head start.

A lot of folks are claiming that Canon can never catch Sony but I disagree, especially since Canon has been doing Mirrorless, just not FF. At least their first model the EOS R has Eye AF where Nikon's did not and they are priced closer to Sony.

Now one other thing I wanted to share, I recently attended ImagingUSA 2019 and had a chance to have a lengthy chat with a man from Canon's CPS while my 6D2 was being serviced and although he couldn't give specifics, when I mentioned that I think Canon will surpass Sony in 18-24 months, he smiled and said "Wait till the world sees what we have coming, it will blow people's minds".

What do you think, will Canon catch and surpass Sony or is Canon gasping for air?
So I wanted to ask the folks here. Canon and Nikon... (show quote)


For the sake of the industry, I hope no one camera company squashes any other one. We need the diversity of ideas to keep the industry moving forward competitively.

Right now, each of the major camera companies has carved out a niche for itself in the industry. There is a lot of overlap of features, performance, and other characteristics, but there are enough unique needs to support Canon, Fujifilm, Leica, Nikon, Olympus, Panasonic, Pentax, Sony... And with the 2020 Olympics coming up soon, I'll bet we'll see new releases from each of them.

EVERY camera rep I've ever talked to at a trade show says boastful things like, "Wait 'til you see what we come up with next!" Frankly, that's mostly bravado meant to keep you "in the fold." Only idiots reveal their road maps to the future, OR the fact that they don't really have one, if they don't. They have to protect what's in the distributor and dealer pipelines, along with all their relationships.

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Jan 30, 2019 10:04:23   #
Steve Perry Loc: Sylvania, Ohio
 
According to this interview with Canon's president, they aren't optimistic.

https://photorumors.com/2019/01/27/canon-sees-a-grim-future-for-the-camera-business-the-digital-camera-market-is-likely-to-shrink-by-half-in-the-next-two-years/

The two most troublesome bullet points IMO:

Canon will shift its camera business focus to corporate customers

Camera application will increase in industrial fields such as surveillance and medical care

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Jan 30, 2019 10:28:26   #
Tomcat5133 Loc: Gladwyne PA
 
Don't want to sound like a Sony fan boy but I have been the in Sony gear world for 5 or 6 years.
I went to London to visit my son and had an NEX camera with one lens. I was sold. Good gear.
Sony keeps surprising us. I had the a7s and now a7s II and they are a leap forward. I have had
Nikon's for years and still have some of their glass. But Canon and Nikon were asleep in their success.
I got the Sony a6300 with 16 - 70mm zeiss lens. Shoot some video and stills around the house and
my home office. Had to load it into my 27" mac because I couldnt believe the imagery. And the video.
Sony is making the sensors for a lot of cameras. Leading in sensor technology.
And the bear in the room was separating stills from video. Video is here big time. Canon and
Nikon were sleeping. I here arguments here about why should I pay for video in my camera.
Video is imagery. You can now pull stills off 4k video on newer cameras. Pricing Sony has beat
the others in price point. Example their new a7III for 2k is amazing.
I shoot video for the work that gives me a living now. I like the Canon pro cameras but they
are priced much higher then Sony. So that is the game changer.

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Jan 30, 2019 10:36:49   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
We spent years watching Nikon and Canon leapfrog over each other in technology in film and DSLR. If mirrorless is around long enough to really mature the same thing will happen. Only difference this time is that there will be more players in the game.

In some ways technology will make it easier for laggards to catch up. As an example, Nikon introduced 2 cameras without eye focus. Instead of waiting two years for the next model they will introduce it with a firmware update. Being able to do that on the fly is a game changer.

Being able to do such updates is not unique to Nikon. They were far from the first to do it. Once mechanical shutters are fully replaced the last big barrier is removed.

Interesting times ahead.

--

---

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Jan 30, 2019 10:38:30   #
mas24 Loc: Southern CA
 
twice_shooter wrote:
What do you think, will Canon catch and surpass Sony or is Canon gasping for air?


Not sure your question is correct. Canon’s share of the camera market is almost 50% while Sony is around 13%. Canon does not need to “catch up”. True Sony has a head start on mirrorless, but Canon is not going to let it’s share erode. Both Canon and Nikon will innovate in the new mirrorless segment and offer much better products than their current offerings. Sony will lose share to both.[/quote]

I agree. Sony, is superior now in mirrorless technology. The a9 is their best so far. And Sony solved the battery issue with a new larger battery.

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Jan 30, 2019 10:40:23   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
Thumper26 wrote:
I have a sinking feeling about the future of photography. The newer generations are not embracing the art. Everything for them is immediate, and then move on. Photography for them is their phone, not an instrument dedicated to taking a picture. DSLR sales have been steadily declining to the point where the market will soon not support the number of companies vying for that market. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see much of a future market.


Don't worry. The % of the population using more advanced cameras had a digitally driven bump from around 2000 through 2013ish. It has simply been returning to historical norms. The share that used instant cameras pre 2000 are dropping back to their cell phones. The share that has always wanted better are still there. The plus is that the bump provided manufactures with much needed R&D money that has allowed all the advances we have seen over that period.

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Jan 30, 2019 10:48:00   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
There are going to be a breed of photographer that are just picture takers. That's it. There will still remain a group, perhaps small in number, that will continue to make photographs.
--Bob
Thumper26 wrote:
I have a sinking feeling about the future of photography. The newer generations are not embracing the art. Everything for them is immediate, and then move on. Photography for them is their phone, not an instrument dedicated to taking a picture. DSLR sales have been steadily declining to the point where the market will soon not support the number of companies vying for that market. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see much of a future market.

Reply
Jan 30, 2019 10:54:34   #
bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA
 
Two remarks that are on target. "The newer generations are not embracing the art." "Computational photography will choke them out "

Except that they are embracing the art. More than ever.

I'm traditional. My first love is putting the most stunning framed pictures I can make on the wall. My teen granddaughters are using photography to communicate among their friends throughout the day, every day. They embrace computational photography because that's what's built into their cameras of choice.

I want a camera with a graphical interface like my phone. I want it to be as connected as my phone. I want it to post process images as good as my phone. I want it to take lenses like cameras do. In other words, I want a camera that will let me install (mobile) Lightroom CC, Photoshop Express or other common apps on it. It will be connected and tethered to my computers, tablets and my online media via a 5G Verizon account.

Can Canon head that way? Or will it be some other company?

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Jan 30, 2019 11:12:30   #
repleo Loc: Boston
 
liamphotoatl wrote:
So I wanted to ask the folks here. Canon and Nikon released their first Full Frame Mirrorless bodies in late 2018 and they were decent starts for both companies, but were of course lacking compared to Sony's 5 year head start.

A lot of folks are claiming that Canon can never catch Sony but I disagree, especially since Canon has been doing Mirrorless, just not FF. At least their first model the EOS R has Eye AF where Nikon's did not and they are priced closer to Sony.

Now one other thing I wanted to share, I recently attended ImagingUSA 2019 and had a chance to have a lengthy chat with a man from Canon's CPS while my 6D2 was being serviced and although he couldn't give specifics, when I mentioned that I think Canon will surpass Sony in 18-24 months, he smiled and said "Wait till the world sees what we have coming, it will blow people's minds".

What do you think, will Canon catch and surpass Sony or is Canon gasping for air?
So I wanted to ask the folks here. Canon and Nikon... (show quote)


Canon seems to placing its bets on selling lenses for their mirrorless offerings and on some 'fun' phone camera beaters (?).

See Canons just released 2018 Financial Results and 'Thoughts on the Industry and Future Goals at
https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-inc-full-year-2018-financial-results-and-thoughts-on-the-industry-and-future-goals/

Some highlights (or lowlights) :
Interchangeable lens cameras down 9%
Compact cameras down 22%

....In 2019, we expect the market to continue to decline, shrinking 7%....

... change in the distribution of internal resources, from development to production as well as sales & marketing....

....Due to the proliferation of smartphones, ......we are broadening our horizon with regard to image capture and will launch models that don’t fall under the typical notion of what a camera is.


Note again "...change in resources from development....to marketing!!!! "

New Category Cameras:
Stylishly designed cameras for young people that are waterproof and highly durable
Cameras optimized for outdoor use in situations where smartphones have difficulty
Cameras equipped with AI that automatically capture images
Cameras that capture the decisive moment in various scenes

Not much joy there for the traditional Canon enthusiast - not even a mention of DSLR's.

Compare Canon's vision for the future with Sony's. Time to make the change.

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