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DSLR v Mirrorless
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Jan 16, 2019 07:58:27   #
chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY
 
CatMarley wrote:
I found a very nice graphic comparing the guts of the DSLR to the Mirrorless MILC.


Very useful chart. To keep it simple they left out another mirror - the piggy back mirror that focuses the image for the AF sensor/metering down below the floor of the mirror box assembly. This design is almost always used in modern DSLRs and many film SLRs dating back to the 80s (I know my OM-2S and OM-4T has this piggyback mirror for spot metering; many AF SLRs had it also.) It amazes me how reliably this works especially at high frame rates (8-10+ fps on higher end DSLRs)... if you ever saw how this works in slow motion on YT it's really a wonder. Mirrorless is much simpler, reliable and also doesn't suffer from AF calibration issues that the DSLR design is susceptible to. Despite this weakness, most DSLRs function great for years before succumbing to problems. The shutter is likely to fail before the mirror mechanism does.

Notice in this actual cutaway of a D5 the lens at the bottom of the mirror box focusing on the AF/exposure sensor module with the help of the piggyback mirror....truly a complex beast.


(Download)

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Jan 16, 2019 08:06:02   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
Vietnam Vet wrote:
Im not going to buy a mirrorless camera either. Getting ready to buy a Canon 1dx2. If I did buy a mirrorless it would be to add to what I have, not replace it. I don't understand why people think that buying a mirrorless camera means they have to get rid of their current equipment.


I enjoy using both my Panasonic g85 m4/3 and my canon T6S.

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Jan 16, 2019 08:11:49   #
bobmcculloch Loc: NYC, NY
 
IMHO, I see no real advantage in switching to mirrorless, no substancial weight savings, shorter battery life, the expense of buying into a new system, if all your gear is lost or destroyed it might be a consideration. As far as simplicity of optical path we should go back to rangefinder cameras.

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Jan 16, 2019 08:15:28   #
mas24 Loc: Southern CA
 
CO wrote:
I recently rented the Nikon Z6 mirrorless for one week and did a lot of test shots with that camera and my D500. The autofocus system in the D500 is no doubt superior. In low light situations, the Z6 would often hunt, trying to acquire focus. The D500 would nail the focus right away. For anything in motion I would trust the D500's autofocus more. For static subjects, the Z6 does very well.

That's an interesting comparison. I don't own any type of mirrorless cameras. But there are some good ones. The D500 is credited by many, as being the best crop sensor DSLR on the market today. But, many consumers want mirrorless. And manufacturers have to answer to the demand. Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, and Fujifilm, have already done so..

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Jan 16, 2019 08:19:52   #
Chadp Loc: Virginia Beach
 
Architect1776 wrote:
So with so much simplicity in the mirrorless why is it not half the price retail?
I would believe manufacturing is much less and can be more automated.


I would imagine that tiny little high definition electronic viewfinder in mirrorless plus the extra chip processing power required adds substantially to the cost.

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Jan 16, 2019 08:22:24   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
CatMarley wrote:
I found a very nice graphic comparing the guts of the DSLR to the Mirrorless MILC.


Nice graph. And that's about it. I really don't understand the reason for your post. Most every photographer on the planet knows that.

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Jan 16, 2019 08:24:19   #
Strodav Loc: Houston, Tx
 
Chadp wrote:
I would imagine that tiny little high definition electronic viewfinder in mirrorless plus the extra chip processing power required adds substantially to the cost.


Electronics is relatively cheap. Even oled displays viewfinder small.

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Jan 16, 2019 08:25:13   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Jakebrake wrote:
Nice graphic Cat and easily shows the difference in the two systems. As for me jumping in the mirrorless bandwagon, that's not going to happen. At 72 years old and upgrading last year to the Canon 5D Mk IV and 80D which take stellar images if I do my part, I see no need to change systems.


Actually no need with Canon to change system's. All your lenses work 100% fine with the R cameras. For that matter the M series same thing as well.
You would just add a 100% compatible body to your current system.

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Jan 16, 2019 08:31:21   #
ELNikkor
 
Does look like mirrorless is simpler. My son got a GH4 in 2015; whenever panning the image looked like it was dragging along behind and after 6 weeks, the electronic viewfinder went totally pink. He was into too many film projects to do without the camera for the 3-6 weeks they told him he'd have to wait to get it repaired under warranty, so 4 years later, he still only has use of the rear screen for viewing. Other than that, it has been a great camera for him. The most recent mirrorless have overcome a lot of the earlier problems, but I still prefer my DSLR's.

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Jan 16, 2019 08:33:44   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
"My local camera shop here in Houston held a major vendor day event a few months back [the day I bought a D850]. Nikon was there and as an EE, I asked several questions about Nikon sensors from several different angles, especially sensors for the D7200, D500, D750 and D850. I was assured Nikon has its own sensor R&D group, they design all their own sensors, but contract out to various CMOS foundries for parts built to Nikon specs and quality standards. Was I lied to?"

No, from what I know the did not lie to you.

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Jan 16, 2019 08:37:22   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Nice one. That's why I like DSLRs - more stuff inside.


YEAH! More stuff is better stuff!

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Jan 16, 2019 08:40:22   #
Black Elk Peak
 
This is another design concerning camera "mirrors". Sony introduced their Translucent Mirror Cameras starting with a33 and continued through to the a99. Lots of pro and cons. I have the a58 and can say that it takes excellent pictures. No moving mirror. No as some say, mirror slap. All we have to do is our research and select the system that meets our needs (and budget). All are excellent designs and systems.

A Sony translucent mirror interchangeable lens camera.

Translucent Mirror (Pellicle Mirror) Interchangeable Lens Cameras

In traditional DSLRs most of the light coming through the main camera lens is deflected to the optical viewfinder using an angled mirror. The main mirror is slightly translucent in the center allowing some light to pass through it to a secondary mirror, which reflects it to a special focusing sensor.

For image capture, the mirror is mechanically raised to allow light coming in through the main lens to fall on the image sensor. While the mirror is raised, the optical view finder is blanked and phase detection autofocus disabled.

The mechanical raising and lowering of the mirror in traditional DSLRs slows image capture and disables autofocus at the time of image capture.

The pellicle mirror splits the incoming light into two beams, continuously directing a portion of it to a phase difference detection autofocus unit and viewfinder.

The technology does away with the motion of raising and lowering the mirror.

The absence of the moving mirror mechanism not only facilitates continuous autofocus and fast image capture, it also contributes to making the whole body size significantly compact compared to traditional DSLR cameras (We discuss the size reduction later).

With a pellicle mirror there is no "black out " when the shutter is released allowing users to continuously track the object.



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Jan 16, 2019 08:44:36   #
stevetassi
 
Architect1776 wrote:
So with so much simplicity in the mirrorless why is it not half the price retail?
I would believe manufacturing is much less and can be more automated.


You’re also neglecting that since mirrorless is newer technology, then economies of scale come into play. Furthermore the diagram is accounting only for the optical path. Let’s add the viewfinder design comparison between DSLR and mirrorless into the mix. Optical(DSLR) is much simpler then evf(mirrorless).

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Jan 16, 2019 09:06:14   #
bobmcculloch Loc: NYC, NY
 
Black Elk Peak wrote:
This is another design concerning camera "mirrors". Sony introduced their Translucent Mirror Cameras starting with a33 and continued through to the a99. Lots of pro and cons. I have the a58 and can say that it takes excellent pictures. No moving mirror. No as some say, mirror slap. All we have to do is our research and select the system that meets our needs (and budget). All are excellent designs and systems.

A Sony translucent mirror interchangeable lens camera.

Translucent Mirror (Pellicle Mirror) Interchangeable Lens Cameras

In traditional DSLRs most of the light coming through the main camera lens is deflected to the optical viewfinder using an angled mirror. The main mirror is slightly translucent in the center allowing some light to pass through it to a secondary mirror, which reflects it to a special focusing sensor.

For image capture, the mirror is mechanically raised to allow light coming in through the main lens to fall on the image sensor. While the mirror is raised, the optical view finder is blanked and phase detection autofocus disabled.

The mechanical raising and lowering of the mirror in traditional DSLRs slows image capture and disables autofocus at the time of image capture.

The pellicle mirror splits the incoming light into two beams, continuously directing a portion of it to a phase difference detection autofocus unit and viewfinder.

The technology does away with the motion of raising and lowering the mirror.

The absence of the moving mirror mechanism not only facilitates continuous autofocus and fast image capture, it also contributes to making the whole body size significantly compact compared to traditional DSLR cameras (We discuss the size reduction later).

With a pellicle mirror there is no "black out " when the shutter is released allowing users to continuously track the object.
This is another design concerning camera "mir... (show quote)


BTW I remember Canon having a 'Pelicle' way back, in the 60's or 70's, died off before I was in retailing.

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Jan 16, 2019 09:18:08   #
riderxlx Loc: DFW area Texas
 
Nice diagram thank you for sharing that.
I like Fuji XT20 or T3 systems. When I jump from my D200 , Fuji’s layout reminds me of the film slr’s which I am more familiar with. The Fuji will probably be my next and last move.
Bruce in Texas.

CatMarley wrote:
I found a very nice graphic comparing the guts of the DSLR to the Mirrorless MILC.

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