Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
The Mirrorless disruption
Page <prev 2 of 9 next> last>>
Jan 2, 2019 06:04:54   #
Flickwet Loc: NEOhio
 
tdekany wrote:
And he insists that he is not a troll.

If this post of his doesn’t prove it, nothing will.

Oh no, bipod again. Hey bipod, welcome to 2019, you’re “miniature” format is now 6x7 medium format; all your spewing about “subminiature” format relates now to say...645. Large format is anything however Larger than 24x36mm is now.
Subminiature is what might be called anything less than m43, or one inch really.
8x10 is certainly nice, Claude Butcher still uses one, if you can’t make it good make it red, if you can’t make it red make it big. His stuff is big.

Reply
Jan 2, 2019 06:20:56   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
JD750 wrote:
D-SLR means Digital-SLR. There is a new guy in town.

I have several D-SLRs and also a M43 mirrorless kit. I have been shooting with M43 since circa 2005. M43 has been my go-to travel kit. Last year I bought a new Mirrorless body: an Olympus OM-D EM-5 Mii (Olympus has long model designations). Wow my only regret was that I waited so long.

I find that the electronic viewfinder on the OM-D lets me see exactly what the picture will be before I snap it. I usually use the M mode, and I find that I am ignoring the exposure meter, checking light and shadow, etc, and instead looking directly at the EVF, the light and shadow, and color .That saves time and gives me a better result more quickly than using my DSLR. It also saves stupid mistakes with WB as wrong WB color is immediately obvious and when using WB for creative effect it is immediately obvious.

So the M43 moved from go-to travel to go-to everyday camera. I carry it with me. It's sitting about 2' (61 cm) away from me as I type this.

I am glad that camera giants Canikon have finally woken up to reality. Viva la competition!

I still shoot with SLRs and I can't wait to get my hands on a Nikon Z camera as I have a lot of great Nikon glass that I could use with the Z. I expect mirrorless versions will quickly replace the D-SLRs.
D-SLR means Digital-SLR. There is a new guy in to... (show quote)


I see many folks now own both. I think that is the way to go. Each have their advantages, why not take advantage of both at the same time.

Reply
Jan 2, 2019 06:26:48   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
My view, too: "I really see no pressing issue that would make me want to rush out and spend big bucks on a new MILC when my DSLR'S work just fine. Sure there are a few features MILC'S have that my DSLR'S don't, but the bottom line is, they both do the same thing, record images digitally."

Meanwhile, we will experience a bombardment of advertisement and shill-talk touting the transition to mirrorless cameras.

That said, early on I bought a mirrorless Fuji camera. I found its operation interesting. Its images did seem a little richer, and its built-in flash produced flattering lighting. Experts said it did not do landscape photographs justice. So I've continued using Canon DSLRs for my landscape photography, with superb results.

Annoyingly (but having nothing to do with image quality), the Fuji camera manual used a very low contrast print font making it nearly illegible to my eyes. Maybe Fuji saved on ink costs that way, but I felt shortchanged by the illegible manual text.
rmorrison1116 wrote:
I've been shooting DSLR'S for a long time and your posting is the first time I've seen anyone hyphenate DSLR as D-SLR, really, first time.
I'm also grateful you took the time to explain what the D actually stands for, although I'm still grasping at straws trying to figure out what SLR stands for. Sorry, just kidding.
I'm just curious when it comes to the whole mirrorless camera thing. I'm curious because mirrorless cameras predate DSLR'S. Yes, they really do. I didn't say MILC'S or mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras, I simply said mirrorless, because any camera without a mirror is in fact mirrorless. My Canon G1X III is not an MILC but it is mirrorless. My Canon M50 is an MILC and also mirrorless. Sounds a wee bit confusing but it's really not. What I don't quite understand is why people who call DSLR'S, DSLR'S, also call MILC'S Mirrorless. Why not MILC'S?! I almost bought an EOS R but decided, I don't really need a MILC full frame. There's nothing wrong with the 3 Canon full frame bodies I already own. So I'll wait and see what the crafty Canon engineers come up with next.
I'm happy with my little M50 although it does look a bit silly with a EF 100-400L lens attached to it. Far less silly with my EF 24-105L attached.
I really see no pressing issue that would make me want to rush out and spend big bucks on a new MILC when my DSLR'S work just fine. Sure there are a few features MILC'S have that my DSLR'S don't, but the bottom line is, they both do the same thing, record images digitally.
My go to pocket camera is my G1X III. It is a 24 megapixel APS-C camera that really does fit in many pockets, and it also has a really nice electronic view finder. The camera that's sitting a couple feet from me is a few years old, my EOS 5DSr and it's still capable of recording images with mind boggling details. I wonder what Canon will replace it with...?!
OBTW, there is no Canikon! Canon and Nikon are totally independent of each other.
I've been shooting DSLR'S for a long time and your... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Jan 2, 2019 06:41:50   #
Flickwet Loc: NEOhio
 
Morning Star wrote:
Interesting! You must have been one of the original testers? Or did you start shooting mirrorless with a 4/3 camera? Or other format?
Bit of history:
2004–2008. The first mirrorless camera commercially marketed was the Epson R-D1 (released in 2004, a range finder camera) (Sensor‎: ‎23.7 x 15.6 mm, 1.53 × FOV crop).
The Micro Four Thirds system, whose first camera was the Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1, was released in Japan in October 2008.

(Don't want to insult you about the year; besides photography, I also like history!)
Interesting! You must have been one of the origina... (show quote)

Well then what about my old, still working, Coolpix 5000, and it wasn’t the first!

Reply
Jan 2, 2019 06:55:11   #
dave.m
 
well I am a real fan of mirrorless. Surely there a better name / acronym? Seems strange to define a fine product by what it doesn't have!! We don't define DSLRs as filmless SLRs. DSLC? (direct single lens camera?)

I'm a Canon user (like most other amateur system users, I stick with it cos the cost of changing all the lenses would be way too expensive) and just got the EOS R. Yes it is overpriced, yes there is some functionality that is surprisingly missing, yes, when the EF lenses are fitted there is not a lot of weight or bulk difference, but I don't care - IQ is excellent, focusing super fast and accurate, burst speed, EVF, touch screen, completely silent operation if required etc etc. I am sure it is the same with the new Nikon mirrorless, and Sony, Olympus, and Panasonic have been there and more for quite a while.

I'm sure in 10 years people will look back at this debate and be amazed.

There are many people who like and really enjoy older technology - I have a mechanical automatic watch and clockwork timepieces because I'm fascinated with the mechanism, others really love vintage cars and so on. But in general for photography digital is so much more convenient and the big pixel sensors such as EOS 5Ds and top end Sony's have now just about caught up with the best resolution and dynamic range of low ASA larger format film for the pixel peepers.

So carry your 5x4 plate camera or Twin lens Reflex camera in your model T Ford if you want to, but not me thank you very much :)

Reply
Jan 2, 2019 07:48:50   #
manpho789
 
@bipod
Some are overly sensitive about “rants”. (Isn’t everyone overly sensitive these days?). Personally, I enjoyed your rant. It had a lot that is factually true, and was done with lots of sardonic humor. This keeps UH from becoming a dull place. Keep up the good work!

Reply
Jan 2, 2019 08:07:14   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
But now we have to make decisions. Stay with the standard, or move into new waters?

Reply
 
 
Jan 2, 2019 08:59:29   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
I am not sure that the mirrorless camera will replace the dSLR bodies but I predicted years ago that eventually all cameras could be mirrorless. I will not mention the benefits because you most probably know a majority of them already.
Nikon and Canon began to play the game just recently. I have no experience nor I expect to have any in the immediate future about mirrorless from them to make any comments. I am entirely satisfied with my Olympus bodies.
Yes, the mirrorless future looks bright.

Reply
Jan 2, 2019 09:25:47   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
There is no disruption! A camera is a camera folks. Like they say before a duel- "pick your weapons gentlemen and may the best man win"!

I love advancements in technology and I certainly do not live in the past and pine for gear I used 25 years ago. Each of us has a preference for the kind or work we want or have to do and the tools we choose for the jobs at at hand. Presently, I use DSLRs for the bulk of my professional work. For certain assignments I use a 6x7 SLR with a Phase I conversion. I phased out film (mostly) as industry demands changed but I still have some of my old gear- up to 8x10 and occasionally are called upon to use it. What with the dearth of certain large format materials, it is becoming less and less practical and practicable and disproportionately costly so it is all a "niche market".

I like what I see in some of the mirrorless cameras but I will not make the investment at the present time although I can see eventually adding some of this kinda gear to my inventory. At the present time and my stayr of physical well-being, I have no issues with the weight of heavier gear.

Thing is, with all theses "arguments" all I would like to see are images that can be made with a mirrorless camera that can not be made with a DSLR. If that scenario fits into to my mainstream work, I'll be the first guy on line at the camera shop! Will my pictures be bigger, that is, more enlargement potential, better, sharper? Will it speed up my camera operations or production, will it enable me to do what I can't do with my present system? Is the system more versatile? Perhaps I need BOTH! I think theses are legitimate and logical questions with sane and logical answers. I couldn't care less how the equipmet is advertised or marketed or who made it or where its is made or any of the sales statistics or market tends. I don't really care who else is using it - just show me the comparative results and if they are superior, you made the "sale"! Any goo salesperson has real product knowledge and can point out features and advantages- SHOW ME!

The only DISRUPTION around here is all the name calling and indecorous behavior that interrupts logical and comprehensive discussions. Too much silly semantics! Of course older rangefinder cameras or 4x5 press cameras are all "mirrorless" and so is the 20x24 Polaroid "Behemoth" but all those are not the real issue here- it's modern digital equipment that most folks are talking about- GROW UP!

I'll read the ads, consider all the scuttlebutt online, read the photo magazines but before I write a check for thousands of dollars for a new camera system, I'm going to the dealer, touch it, smell it, put it through its paces and see the results.

If you look around hard enough, y'all are gonna find folks doing all kids of strange things in photography. I'm sure there are folks still using Minox sub-miniature cameras, banquet and cirkut cameras or somebody boiling their own emulsion on the kitchen stove and coating it on wet plates. Guess what? They are all entitled to do those things and extol the virtues of their favorite obsolete process or antique equipment. If the are making great images, more power to them.

I really don't miss my 4x5 Linhof, the old Rolleiflex, and my trusty Hasselblads, nor do I miss my 1958 DeSoto- they were all great at the time but it is 2019 folks, Happy New Year!

Reply
Jan 2, 2019 09:43:36   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
JD750 wrote:
D-SLR means Digital-SLR. There is a new guy in town.

I have several D-SLRs and also a M43 mirrorless kit. I have been shooting with M43 since circa 2005. M43 has been my go-to travel kit. Last year I bought a new Mirrorless body: an Olympus OM-D EM-5 Mii (Olympus has long model designations). Wow my only regret was that I waited so long.

I find that the electronic viewfinder on the OM-D lets me see exactly what the picture will be before I snap it. I usually use the M mode, and I find that I am ignoring the exposure meter, checking light and shadow, etc, and instead looking directly at the EVF, the light and shadow, and color .That saves time and gives me a better result more quickly than using my DSLR. It also saves stupid mistakes with WB as wrong WB color is immediately obvious and when using WB for creative effect it is immediately obvious.

So the M43 moved from go-to travel to go-to everyday camera. I carry it with me. It's sitting about 2' (61 cm) away from me as I type this.

I am glad that camera giants Canikon have finally woken up to reality. Viva la competition!

I still shoot with SLRs and I can't wait to get my hands on a Nikon Z camera as I have a lot of great Nikon glass that I could use with the Z. I expect mirrorless versions will quickly replace the D-SLRs.
D-SLR means Digital-SLR. There is a new guy in to... (show quote)


Exactly!

Reply
Jan 2, 2019 09:51:22   #
Spirit Vision Photography Loc: Behind a Camera.
 
Shutterbug57 wrote:
There is no doubt that MLICs let you get good shots fast; my Fuji X-T2 sure does. If that is the only goal, the MLIC is a great tool - and probably the future. I find I hone my craft better with manual cameras and film.



Use whatever tools serve your purpose.

Reply
 
 
Jan 2, 2019 11:02:52   #
delkeener Loc: SW Rhode Island, USA
 
Have a strange impression of artificiality on the upside down Scooby Do photo. Almost as if it's put together with library paste. Does anyone else think it strange?
Fotomacher wrote:
I have 3 camera bodies and a good arsenal of prime lenses and a few fixed aperture zooms. My bodies are F5, D810 and E-M1.1. The m4/3 body is the one i use for more casual imaging although it is more than capable of helping me capture stellar shots. (Example attached). I am more comfortable with my Nikon bodies when I am shooting for my portfolio.

Reply
Jan 2, 2019 11:11:25   #
Cheapshot Loc: California.
 
Spot on...exactly!

rmorrison1116 wrote:
I've been shooting DSLR'S for a long time and your posting is the first time I've seen anyone hyphenate DSLR as D-SLR, really, first time.
I'm also grateful you took the time to explain what the D actually stands for, although I'm still grasping at straws trying to figure out what SLR stands for. Sorry, just kidding.
I'm just curious when it comes to the whole mirrorless camera thing. I'm curious because mirrorless cameras predate DSLR'S. Yes, they really do. I didn't say MILC'S or mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras, I simply said mirrorless, because any camera without a mirror is in fact mirrorless. My Canon G1X III is not an MILC but it is mirrorless. My Canon M50 is an MILC and also mirrorless. Sounds a wee bit confusing but it's really not. What I don't quite understand is why people who call DSLR'S, DSLR'S, also call MILC'S Mirrorless. Why not MILC'S?! I almost bought an EOS R but decided, I don't really need a MILC full frame. There's nothing wrong with the 3 Canon full frame bodies I already own. So I'll wait and see what the crafty Canon engineers come up with next.
I'm happy with my little M50 although it does look a bit silly with a EF 100-400L lens attached to it. Far less silly with my EF 24-105L attached.
I really see no pressing issue that would make me want to rush out and spend big bucks on a new MILC when my DSLR'S work just fine. Sure there are a few features MILC'S have that my DSLR'S don't, but the bottom line is, they both do the same thing, record images digitally.
My go to pocket camera is my G1X III. It is a 24 megapixel APS-C camera that really does fit in many pockets, and it also has a really nice electronic view finder. The camera that's sitting a couple feet from me is a few years old, my EOS 5DSr and it's still capable of recording images with mind boggling details. I wonder what Canon will replace it with...?!
OBTW, there is no Canikon! Canon and Nikon are totally independent of each other.
I've been shooting DSLR'S for a long time and your... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 2, 2019 12:11:10   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
dave.m wrote:
well I am a real fan of mirrorless. Surely there a better name / acronym? Seems strange to define a fine product by what it doesn't have!! We don't define DSLRs as filmless SLRs. DSLC? (direct single lens camera?)


There are many people who like and really enjoy older technology - I have a mechanical automatic watch and clockwork timepieces because I'm fascinated with the mechanism, others really love vintage cars and so on. But in general for photography digital is so much more convenient and the big pixel sensors such as EOS 5Ds and top end Sony's have now just about caught up with the best resolution and dynamic range of low ASA larger format film for the pixel peepers.

well I am a real fan of mirrorless. Surely there... (show quote)


I think the appropriate name is simply DSL. or D The "reflex" "R" and "SL" additions to the camera was an attempt to overcome the deficiencies of the rangefinder 35mm, and the need for two lenses as in the twin lens Rolli, which accounts for the "SL". So this cumbersome arrangement, of a big glass prism and a large mirror that needed to be cleared out of the way to make the exposure, was introduced some time in the 50's if I remember. My dad had one of the first ones that came out. Twin lens cameras are thin on the ground now, so perhaps we don't need the SL any more. I think the proper name now would be DEL, "Digital Exchangeable Lens", or DIL "Digital Interchangeable Lens" to differentiate it from fixed lens digital cameras. Both SL and R do not apply any more.

Reply
Jan 2, 2019 12:15:36   #
xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
You may enjoy the online version of the manual "another view."

Happy NY!


anotherview wrote:
My view, too: "I really see no pressing issue that would make me want to rush out and spend big bucks on a new MILC when my DSLR'S work just fine. Sure there are a few features MILC'S have that my DSLR'S don't, but the bottom line is, they both do the same thing, record images digitally."

Meanwhile, we will experience a bombardment of advertisement and shill-talk touting the transition to mirrorless cameras.

That said, early on I bought a mirrorless Fuji camera. I found its operation interesting. Its images did seem a little richer, and its built-in flash produced flattering lighting. Experts said it did not do landscape photographs justice. So I've continued using Canon DSLRs for my landscape photography, with superb results.

Annoyingly (but having nothing to do with image quality), the Fuji camera manual used a very low contrast print font making it nearly illegible to my eyes. Maybe Fuji saved on ink costs that way, but I felt shortchanged by the illegible manual text.
My view, too: "I really see no pressing issu... (show quote)

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 9 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.