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The value (or distraction) of virtual mats and frames
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Dec 11, 2018 08:25:39   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
Thank you all for your thoughtful and informative replies. I've enjoyed every one!

A few snips:
larryepage wrote:
For on line presentation, my preference is for a plain black or very dark surrounding screen (not a mat).
I believe the download on UHH used to show a white background, but it's now black. I don't know if that's the same for all browsers. I know in "my profile" you can enable a feature to click on the image itself to see on black, but that won't change the size.
martinfisherphoto wrote:
It's fair game, just like a watermark over, in or around the image.. If it interferes with the image (draws your eye) it's worth a mention...... It works both ways, if it helps the image, a mention along those lines works as well.
I've seen logos placed in the negative space, ending up as part of the composition
kenievans wrote:
...Thanks Linda for adding to my list of things to learn.
How many pages now?
Blenheim Orange wrote:
Dave (Uuglypher) started a great thread about matting a while back.
Enhancing Perceived Depth in Images via Artistic Matting
I'm so glad you posted this Mike. I couldn't remember where or when I'd seen.
Linda2 wrote:
...If you are matting and framing just remember the mat should always be wider than the frame or else the image gets that squeezed in look. A wider mat lets your eye zoom right into the image, but there I go back to my framing days again!...
Thanks for the tips, Linda!
anotherview wrote:
This is not a trivial subject but akin to composition and the effort in camera to frame the subject in the best way to flatter it...
Well said.

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Dec 11, 2018 08:27:05   #
BigQ
 
I also don’t like watermarks and such on an image. I think they distract. Also don’t like frames for online posting. Great for display of prints, although.

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Dec 11, 2018 08:31:21   #
pahtspix
 
My on-line Jpgs usually have a border/frame..Prints however, do no have a "printed" frame .

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Dec 11, 2018 08:49:14   #
CaptainPhoto
 
I am a member of a photo club. We have a -three- judge panel critique photos of members once a year. The photo can be framed and matted, canvas prints, or metal prints. If the print is framed most of the judges want to see as simple black frame and white mat. No fancy frames or colored mat. This seems to be the norm for many "photography" shows, as apposed to photography in an art gallery. I had a 16 x 20 photo, very nice custom frame and colored double mated that I entered in my art league annual juried show and won first place. I put the same photo in the photo club judged show and won nothing. Some other members in the photo club had colored mat nice frames and the judges comments were not favorable toward that type of format. So I guess it just depends on the venue and the "opinion" of the judge. Go figure. One thing I learned since entering art and photographs in shows is that it's all "very subjective". If it's a photography show I tend to go with plain simple black frame and white mat.

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Dec 11, 2018 08:51:27   #
NCMtnMan Loc: N. Fork New River, Ashe Co., NC
 
Having once owned a framing business, I will pose the same question I did to my customers back then. Does the frame and or mat contribute to the piece of work? Two of the primary purposes of a mat are to protect the piece from touching the glass and to add separation from the frame. Anything beyond that can become an accent or a distraction. I do a lot of nature and landscape photography and have found that people tend to prefer canvas prints for much of that which I can only surmise is due to the subject matter. Seldom is any framing done.

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Dec 11, 2018 08:52:37   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
CaptainPhoto wrote:
... One thing I learned since entering art and photographs in shows is that it's all "very subjective"...
I've read many similar experiences expressed here on UHH. I enjoyed monthly competitions in a large club in Alexandria VA in the late 1980's. I didn't know enough then to understand what was just opinion and what was a "great truth"

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Dec 11, 2018 08:55:07   #
Low Budget Dave
 
Linda, I really liked your example. I think that was a great demonstration of why the frame and matting should be included in the critique. You made a decision to include a large frame instead of a small one, to use b&w instead of color, and to use a very particular set of ratios. These are all artistic decisions made in the same way as composing a photograph.

Someone else who posted a similar photograph without that much effort might find himself (or herself) on the losing end of a photo competition. But that is why we have competitions. Not (just) so we can see who is best, but so the people who come in 4th (or 24th) can learn from the people who put in some extra work, or had a slightly better vision.

Thanks for the lesson

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Dec 11, 2018 08:58:58   #
fergmark Loc: norwalk connecticut
 
When a photo is posted that I want a better look at, whether from FYC or the gallery, it ends up in photoshop. The crop tool is engaged in order to study a composition, or to explore alternative cropping. When a photo is posted with a frame or mat, the first thing I do, is remove them. I suppose that when someone frames or mats their photo, he or she could be saying that they cannot imagine, or, are not open to suggestions for any changes being made to their photo, and are looking for no other feedback than thumbs up, and attaboy's. After all, when we get to a point of framing a photo, we have a print in front of us, and we are no longer focused on a discussion about the merits of the photo itself. So looking specifically for framing advise, or feedback seems like a whole other consideration, but when it is included, I think its as much a target for critique, as the photo, and I would have to think the photographer would expect that to be the case. For every good framing solution there are many more poor ones. Virtual matting/framing is a fun thing to experiment with, but I have learned to have a lot of respect for professional framers. They are specialist. No question we want our photos to be presented in the best light possible. I just feel that including anything other than the photo is a bit superfluous for the purposes of this forum.

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Dec 11, 2018 09:06:51   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
Low Budget Dave wrote:
Linda, I really liked your example.
Thanks! That came about because I was pondering how to fit that photo into an 8x12 frame. I do like how it looks online, except an argument could be made that a better view would be equal width of the white "mat" all around. The odd aspect ratio of the cropped pic required that for a standard print.

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Dec 11, 2018 09:10:34   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
Context matters, a couple of my devices will show some of my photos in various ways sometimes matted sometimes without and within these slide shows it usually works. In a forum post the page acts as a mat so a thin border tends to work better than a substantial mat.

Electronic display has different needs to paper. often a pdf document has inch wide borders around the content, which makes sense for paper but when you have a screen bezel already acting as a margin, it just loses space for content.

Mats work better in the download than in a page. unfortunately there is no option to scale and crop the thumbnail

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Dec 11, 2018 09:14:11   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
fergmark wrote:
When a photo is posted that I want a better look at, whether from FYC or the gallery, it ends up in photoshop. The crop tool is engaged in order to study a composition, or to explore alternative cropping. When a photo is posted with a frame or mat, the first thing I do, is remove them. I suppose that when someone frames or mats their photo, he or she could be saying that they cannot imagine, or, are not open to suggestions for any changes being made to their photo, and are looking for no other feedback than thumbs up, and attaboy's. After all, when we get to a point of framing a photo, we have a print in front of us, and we are no longer focused on a discussion about the merits of the photo itself. So looking specifically for framing advise, or feedback seems like a whole other consideration, but when it is included, I think its as much a target for critique, as the photo, and I would have to think the photographer would expect that to be the case. For every good framing solution there are many more poor ones. Virtual matting/framing is a fun thing to experiment with, but I have learned to have a lot of respect for professional framers. They are specialist. No question we want our photos to be presented in the best light possible. I just feel that including anything other than the photo is a bit superfluous for the purposes of this forum.
When a photo is posted that I want a better look a... (show quote)
Thoughtfully expressed; many thanks, Mark!

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Dec 11, 2018 09:30:54   #
bertloomis Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
 
I believe in commenting on the whole image, including the frame. If you took your photo to a framing store and they surrounded it with mats and a frame that conflicted, you would definitely not be happy. The frame affects the total visual experience.

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Dec 11, 2018 09:38:26   #
rplain1 Loc: Dayton, Oh.
 
I'm with Bob on this one. I do not frame anything I post and the ones I hang are pretty much 18x24 frame with 2" matting. Most of the frame edges are one inch or less.

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Dec 11, 2018 09:42:07   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
In my opinion, mats and frames are for print presentations. A photo on a screen should have no more than an appropriate "key line" if necessary to tie the composition together. Perhaps I’m a minimalist. 😉😉

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Dec 11, 2018 09:48:44   #
sbohne
 
cdayton wrote:
Also, I am not a fan of signatures/studio names on images.


If you are a professional photographer, I am of the opinion that you are just slightly short of stupid if you don't put your studio name on your work. It builds your image in your community. I gold stamped all portraits 8x10 and smaller. Prints larger than 8x10 were signed by the artist (or someone employed by the artist). Picasso signed his work. Rolls Royce puts their name on their work. Remington signed his work. David Winters signs his work. So I'd love to know why I should leave my name off my photographs and be the best photographer in town that nobody knows. It's your business and you can operate it anyway you want... Just as long as you are willing to accept the consequences.

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