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Setting aperture and shutter speed - the active vs. the passive approach
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Nov 15, 2018 15:55:16   #
TheShoe Loc: Lacey, WA
 
rjaywallace wrote:
I believe the Active approach is more straightforward and easier to understand for newbies and less active photo enthusiasts. As an aside, I think the term “newbies” is unnecessarily pejoritive - we need to come up with a less insulting/diminishing term. I believe the Passive approach is better used by more experienced photographers who are thoroughly familiar with the features and capability of their cameras.
Since my hands are partially paralyzed and therefore unstable, shutter speed is the first order of business for me. A fast shutter gives fewer pictures that are tossed because of camera motion.

How about "neophytes" in place of "newbies"?

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Nov 15, 2018 15:56:11   #
jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
The active approach is to first choose the setting that is most important to your result:

1. Shutter speed for freezing or blurring motion
or
2. Aperture for depth of field

Once you've made that important first decision, you then adjust the others in order to achieve your desired exposure.

The passive approach is "If I set a wider aperture (smaller number), it will enable the shutter speed to increase." To me this seems backwards - for want of a better word at the moment - if shutter speed is of primary importance, e.g. shooting birds in flight, or creating a silky water look.

I'd appreciate discussion on how and why you make your choices, and what - in your experience - is most beneficial for newbies. Many thanks!
The active approach is to b first /b choose the ... (show quote)


I normally use what you call the "active" method by setting the shutter speed and aperture in manual, then either setting the ISO to a specific value as desired based mostly on the histogram or setting it to Automatic depending on the specific situation for the shot(s). This system has worked well for me IMO.

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Nov 15, 2018 15:58:55   #
BboH Loc: s of 2/21, Ellicott City, MD
 
Anhanga Brasil wrote:
A very good way to start my view.
I do not like (euphemism) Adobe, PERIOD. They steal data and like Micro$oft and Apple,
they have the same greedy way of doing business. I do not like "open source" either (neither ?),
because the opportunity makes the thief in some cases (mean people). I had my first contact
with a computer back in 1979 (Burroughs B1700 and ForTran IV). Since then I had programmed
in 8-bit and 16-bit various languages (Assembly, BASIC, C, C++, Visual Basic, etc.).
Micro$oft bought the rights of Dbase, released a Window$ version and deep-sixed it.
Bought XTreeGold, launched the XT4 (for Window$) and buried it too... moving on...

Sorry for the long post, but... c'mon I read a lot more.

:
A very good way to start my view. br I do not like... (show quote)


My first computer was an Epson Notebook - still have it - it is the exact size of a 3-ring 1" binder, hence the term "Notebook"; you had to do your own programming using Epson Basic. This is how I learned I'm not cut out for programming. My first desktop was a Columbia, among the 2nd generation of IBM clones, named such because it was created and manufactured in Columbia, MD. I had Xtree Gold also - remember the name but not much about it except it was a darn good program.
Boy, did you bring back some memories that I had to share.

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Nov 15, 2018 16:03:23   #
graybeard
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
The active approach is to first choose the setting that is most important to your result:

1. Shutter speed for freezing or blurring motion
or
2. Aperture for depth of field

Once you've made that important first decision, you then adjust the others in order to achieve your desired exposure.

The passive approach is "If I set a wider aperture (smaller number), it will enable the shutter speed to increase." To me this seems backwards - for want of a better word at the moment - if shutter speed is of primary importance, e.g. shooting birds in flight, or creating a silky water look.

I'd appreciate discussion on how and why you make your choices, and what - in your experience - is most beneficial for newbies. Many thanks!
The active approach is to b first /b choose the ... (show quote)

Except for low light situations, I keep the ISO set to 100 or 200, never higher, in order to minimize noise. You have enough light left to choose between, as you say, dof or blur/freeze. I prefer TV (shutter speed priority) since I hate blur in most situations and like to shoot 500 or better SS. But again, you still have a wide selection of SS/f stop selections in all but low light. One of the first things I noticed when changing from film to digital is the need for 1.4 or 1.8 lenses to get low light/night shots decreased.

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Nov 15, 2018 16:16:27   #
Fstop12 Loc: Kentucky
 
I usually use Aperture Priority on my camera. I leave an ISO range I want then set what aperture setting I want and let the camera decide what shutter speed to use to accomplish my settings.

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Nov 15, 2018 16:21:09   #
BlueMorel Loc: Southwest Michigan
 
I am always looking for closeups of the odd object or wildflower, so I often set my Canon EOS t2i on AV aperture mode, with ISO set at 100 or 200, aperture set at 1.8 or a little more to get the short DOF I'm looking for. But when I'm out and about taking scenic photos farther away, I still use AV mode most of the time, up the ISO depending on the weather and time of day, and still let camera decide on shutter speed. I hardly ever take photos where I need a longer shutter speed for effect.

Trouble with my shooting style is that changing settings for subjects out of my usual realm takes thinking and experimenting on my part. BIF and sports venues probably wouldn't be a good specialty for me.

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Nov 15, 2018 16:26:06   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
mgoldfield wrote:
...A good learning tool is to take shots in Auto and examine the histogram and other exif data. This can help the inexperienced get a feel for exposure settings as they relate to subject and lighting...
Someone else mentioned that also; it's a really interesting idea. Thanks!
mizzee wrote:
...Because my Oly is live view all the time, I can see what I’m going to get before I shoot. This lets me fine tune with EC, etc. I don’t worry much about noise as my images aren’t going to appear on a bus.
Me too re the Oly (and me neither re the bus ). Many thanks for your participation.
pappleg wrote:
Good discussion, Linda. I believe there is at least one more option that I have not yet seen and that is shooting HDR in high contrast circumstances.
Gorgeous photo! Thanks so much for explaining your process.
bastro wrote:
Great thread imho... it is great to hear what others with more experience think and do...
Very gratifying to know you are enjoying the discussion!
genocolo wrote:
Great discussion for most of us. Thanks for the topic and opportunity to learn.
Much appreciated.
NCMtnMan wrote:
...Can't fix out of focus or blurry ot DOF.
Succinct and spot on.
lsupremo wrote:
...we can keep playing around with all these buttons on our cameras and see what comes out. Or maybe it doesn’t matter, we can fix anything in photoshop.
Hmm, I might need a few more lessons
camerapapi wrote:
... I seldom set my cameras to shutter priority. It works for me that way but I can also understand that my approach will not work for everybody.... If I go manual my humble experience tells me, according to the subject, which aperture will be preferable and that also applies to aperture priority.
Appreciate your sharing your knowledge, William!
philo wrote:
I believe that your main discussion pertains to M mode and not A or T mode.
I use A mode 90 % of the time. However I have to be careful about my S speed while shooting in shade. As one gets older it is a good idea to increase S speed.
Thanks very much for your comments, philo. I've had to increase shutter speed; my limited experience with tripods was not enjoyable
John_F wrote:
There is a Third approach - it called for want of a better word, baffled.
Nooo, everyone who reads this thread will walk away ready for prime time!
RRS wrote:
...I strived for SOOC (straight out of camera) I guess but when that didn't work I learned how to do darkroom magic, dodge and burn along with other tricks. Today we have Photoshop and many other wonderful tools at our disposal and setting the aperture and shutter speed is just the beginning of a long process.
Unless someone is striving to become a pro and needs to please their clients, I'm all for "it's your image, do what you want to it" (the other link in my signature). Thanks for your comments.
2mdman wrote:
I'd say my approach is more Adaptive - i.e. shoot based upon what I'm trying to do (what you call "active") and what the conditions dictate. ... I'm particularly displeased that I failed to adjust properly to conditions after stepping out of a museum...Good thread Linda and a nice discussion.
I'm pretty sure everyone, regardless of years of with a camera, has experienced one unpleasant oops moment with settings. Glad you're enjoying the discussion; happy you joined in.
GrannyAnnie wrote:
...May I never become so arrogant as to think I have nothing more to learn......and I have a lot more to learn. Thank you, Linda, for opening a very helpful and interesting discussion!
Delighted to have you!
bertloomis wrote:
I use the active method. I have yet to choose both the shutter speed and aperture by adjusting the ISO.
Appreciate your posting.
jaycoffman wrote:
... I've found that I have to use auto-ISO most of the time because my needs switch drastically from shot to shot...
Many thanks for your detailed and valuable information. Good stuff!
cjc2 wrote:
As a sports photographer I know a couple of things going in. First, in most cases, I want a Shutter Speed of 1/1000th (Or faster). Secondly, as I wish to lead the viewer to the subject, I want to shoot wide open...
Appreciate the glimpse into your work decisions. Many thanks for participating.
BboH wrote:
...Preparing to retire (at 72) ...what I have since perceived is that raw is about being an artist which I am not! ...finally, I have grown rather averse to spending time in front of a computer...
Anyone who doesn't retire until age 72 has well earned the right to do it his way
foxfirerodandgun wrote:
... Linda, your question, and the responses to it, have now sparked a new interest in using other modes and settings. I'm sure that I'll have a number of questions as I pursue this area further. At my age I need to keep my brain veery active. ;~)
Very gratifying to hear, and I'm positive all who have participated here will be happy to help you if they can. Thanks so much!
cambriaman wrote:
...I was raised by an artistic mother ...In today's world I do use P or A or S settings when I photograph family snapshots, but my serious photography is almost always M.
Thank you for sharing your background and shooting habits. Very enjoyable to read.
Toment wrote:
I’m the lazy kind: I look in the EVF and adjust til I like the look😄😄
We are not here to judge
juanbalv wrote:
I know this has been recommended before: Bryan Peterson's "Understanding Exposure" is far and above one of the best books on the subject...
It has received consistent praise during the time I've been on UHH. Never hurts to mention again; thank you!
Tex-s wrote:
...Yearbook images are rarely viewed and printed at large scales, so some noise is acceptable to be sure we get 'fun' action shots.
Thanks so much for your detailed outline about various shooting situations. Terrific information.
Anhanga Brasil wrote:
...Anyway, I let light take me and my camera HAS to do what I want, except when I am wrong.
I enjoyed your humor, Otto, and as I mentioned to you recently, it's a great treat that UHH is a worldwide forum. So glad you joined this particular discussion.
Photocraig wrote:
So, I'm assuming f8 and be there needs some extra thought.
I believe that topic has been already covered
Photocraig wrote:
Back in the manual focus day, we used Zone Focusing where with a small enough aperture and focusing on a spot (or picking a distance off the scale) we had a reasonable chance of getting moving subjects into a "zone of apparent focus." Perhaps using similar conceptual thinking, a photographer could set up the camera in a given location/situation so even a quick (non Auto) snap has a good chance of surviving the delete button. Maybe that's an exercise I'll try today...
Sounds intriguing; please report back with your result!
TheShoe wrote:
Since my hands are partially paralyzed and therefore unstable, shutter speed is the first order of business for me. A fast shutter gives fewer pictures that are tossed because of camera motion. How about "neophytes" in place of "newbies"?
Thanks so much for sharing your solution for your physical challenges. Another suggestion for newbie was novice. A lot of options beginning with N it seems Thank you for commenting in the topic.
jackm1943 wrote:
I normally use what you call the "active" method by setting the shutter speed and aperture in manual, then either setting the ISO to a specific value as desired based mostly on the histogram or setting it to Automatic depending on the specific situation for the shot(s). This system has worked well for me IMO.
Thanks very much Jack!
graybeard wrote:
Except for low light situations, I keep the ISO set to 100 or 200, never higher, in order to minimize noise. You have enough light left to choose between, as you say, dof or blur/freeze. I prefer TV (shutter speed priority) since I hate blur in most situations and like to shoot 500 or better SS. But again, you still have a wide selection of SS/f stop selections in all but low light. One of the first things I noticed when changing from film to digital is the need for 1.4 or 1.8 lenses to get low light/night shots decreased.
Except for low light situations, I keep the ISO se... (show quote)
Thank you for this information, Graybeard. Appreciate your participation.
Fstop12 wrote:
I usually use Aperture Priority on my camera. I leave an ISO range I want then set what aperture setting I want and let the camera decide what shutter speed to use to accomplish my settings.
Thanks very much for posting.
BlueMorel wrote:
I am always looking for closeups of the odd object or wildflower...Trouble with my shooting style is that changing settings for subjects out of my usual realm takes thinking and experimenting on my part...
I happily used just an 18-55 kit lens for four years, mostly shooting flowers - but always seeking interesting light. Appreciate your comments!

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Nov 15, 2018 16:56:01   #
aubreybogle Loc: Albuquerque, NM
 
Learning photography as a teenager using a pure manual 35mm film camera and a Gossen hand held light meter, I instinctively fall back on the active approach. ISO (then ASA or DIN) was only controlled by the choice of film loaded in the camera, and whether it could be pushed in development. My learning process for composition was partly trial and error, and reading photography magazines - primarily Popular Photography in the late 50's and early 60's.

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Nov 15, 2018 17:22:54   #
farnsworth52 Loc: W. Pa.
 
P mode with exposure correction will adjust speed and aperature, and using ISO can get it done pretty quickly.

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Nov 15, 2018 18:29:02   #
CamB Loc: Juneau, Alaska
 
This has been a fun post. Bucking the trend (but not alone here), I almost always shoot an Aperture priority and I never use auto ISO. My reasons are defiantly non-intuitive for new photographers and sometimes confuse my students, but I give them other options. When I pick up my camera I don't want to wonder what mode it is set on. If I need to control DOF, I adjust the aperture. If I need to control shutter speed, I adjust aperture, which changes shutter speed. I really only use three ISO settings. 400 most of the time in rainy, often gloomy Juneau. Or 100 if we get a rare sunny day. Or 1600 when I need 1600. On my D7500 I am still trying to come to grips with 3200 and higher, which work great but don't seem like they should. I never use P. If cameras didn't have P and auto, people new to photography would quickly learn how everything relates to everything else side by side with learning composition and all the other stuff.
...Cam
Linda From Maine wrote:
The active approach is to first choose the setting that is most important to your result:

1. Shutter speed for freezing or blurring motion
or
2. Aperture for depth of field

Once you've made that important first decision, you then adjust the others in order to achieve your desired exposure.

The passive approach is "If I set a wider aperture (smaller number), it will enable the shutter speed to increase." To me this seems backwards - for want of a better word at the moment - if shutter speed is of primary importance, e.g. shooting birds in flight, or creating a silky water look.

I'd appreciate discussion on how and why you make your choices, and what - in your experience - is most beneficial for newbies. Many thanks!
The active approach is to b first /b choose the ... (show quote)

Reply
Nov 16, 2018 07:12:42   #
CCChuckles Loc: Michigan
 
I use AUTO on all my cameras and then do Post Processing to bring out qualities I feel are necessary...

Reply
 
 
Nov 16, 2018 07:41:48   #
DavidPine Loc: Fredericksburg, TX
 
I shoot manual and I am very active on almost every shot depending on what I hope to achieve. I usually just spin the command dials or push buttons I have set for specific functions. I know them by feel and I don't have to overthink. while I am composing and focusing. Usually, I know what I want and how to get there and that comes from making thousands and thousands of images. When I go from one genre to another it is usually the same mental process. I know what works for me, usually. Sometimes, I screw the pooch and I have learned to occasionally chimp to see if I'm on track or if I need to make a major adjustment. The composition and focus are the vital functions, to me.

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Nov 16, 2018 08:53:21   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
aubreybogle wrote:
... My learning process for composition was partly trial and error, and reading photography magazines - primarily Popular Photography in the late 50's and early 60's.
Thank you for commenting, aubrey. Fun to know about the magazines as inspiration.
farnsworth52 wrote:
P mode with exposure correction will adjust speed and aperature, and using ISO can get it done pretty quickly.
Appreciate your taking the time to comment.
CamB wrote:
This has been a fun post... When I pick up my camera I don't want to wonder what mode it is set on.
I chuckled over your "amazement" that high ISO looks OK Re keeping on same mode: with the camera I use mostly for birds, I try to remember to set it back to a higher shutter speed after shooting something else - for the same reason you gave. Many thanks for your participation, Cam, very glad you enjoyed!
CCChuckles wrote:
I use AUTO on all my cameras and then do Post Processing to bring out qualities I feel are necessary...
If auto works for you, no reason to change. Appreciate your interest in the thread, CC.
DavidPine wrote:
... The composition and focus are the vital functions, to me.
Your story should inspire those who are frustrated and feel they will never get to a point where they can make their decisions quickly (how to get there). Many thanks for your comments, David.

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Nov 16, 2018 09:31:29   #
AzPicLady Loc: Behind the camera!
 
I have two cameras. One is for action and the other is basically for landscape. My action camera does a pretty good job for landscapes, but the landscape camera really sucks for action! I keep the first one on shutter priority. I've noticed lately that it adjusts the ISO without my knowledge, so I end up with some pretty high ISO's. I've got to figure out how to keep it from doing that, as it didn't use to. My landscape camera is always on aperture priority and is easily adjustable for light conditions. I try to shoot no higher than 400 ISO, but sometimes the light requires higher. Since it's usually on a tripod, the shutter speed can be r e a l l y s l o w if needed. My frustration is having the right camera in hand at the right moment!

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Nov 16, 2018 12:06:19   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
AzPicLady wrote:
I have two cameras... My frustration is having the right camera in hand at the right moment!
Sounds very similar to how I have my Panasonic and my Olympus set up. Prior to buying those in spring 2017, I had two Canon T3i bodies: on one I kept an 18-135 mm lens mostly for landscapes, and the other a 70-300 mm lens. I didn't experience much frustration with not having the "right" camera in hand for the moment because I am never far from my car Very glad you joined the thread, Kathy; thank you!

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