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Full frame versus cropped camera
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Aug 28, 2018 07:20:49   #
chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY
 
mdpathjp wrote:
I would be interested in the so called desirability of full frame cameras; they are bigger, heavier and cost more as do the lens. Is it printing? My Nikon D7200 makes beautiful 16x20 prints. I just don't understand why photographers seem biased toward this format.


This subject has been beaten to death in these forums and elsewhere. If you keep your ISO reasonably low (daylight shooting) noise will not be an issue with the D7200... full frame has noise too just about 1-1.5 stops higher ISO for same noise level, which could make a difference for wedding photographers inside dark churches. FF is a *slight* advantage for landscape or portrait photography but that doesn't mean you can't take great photos of landscapes or portraits with APSC....just size the lens accordingly. At the wide end you will need a lower focal length or a wide angle DX lens such as the 10-24mm Nikkor DX. I think many pros go to FF due to peer pressure or as a matter of policy not for practical reasons. Personally I like DX for macro, tele (birds, wildlife) but FF for other genres, but there is much overlap in utility of either format.

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Aug 28, 2018 07:37:56   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
mdpathjp wrote:
I would be interested in the so called desirability of full frame cameras; they are bigger, heavier and cost more as do the lens. Is it printing? My Nikon D7200 makes beautiful 16x20 prints. I just don't understand why photographers seem biased toward this format.


I tend to use FF for landscapes, I like to create foreground background shots that wide angles are great for. I can't get this with cropped sensor. I like my cropped sensor Nikon for wildlife because of the reach I get and usually I can put more EFFECTIVE MEGAPIXELS on the bird than I can with FF. Anyway, that's why I use each.

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Aug 28, 2018 07:54:54   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
Today cropped cameras do as well as full frame, are less expensive and last a lifetime. In the beginning, when buying a full frame camera cost an eye and a leg their low light performance was superior to cropped sensors and photographers, used to shoot with film, saw the advantage to them of using a camera that offered the same view as a 35mm camera with the same lenses used for film. As you know, eventually many lenses for the FX format complimented the camera and the professional photographer had now a camera with lenses to cope with any situation.
In the meantime progress in technology began to make the gap narrower between DX and FX bodies. The new cameras are excellent in low light and there are now lenses of excellent quality to also cope with any situation. The advantage of the "digital factor" is still important for those photographers that engage in sports and wildlife photography often. Using the DX format they have with those lenses more reach.
I have never used one but I know the D7200 is an excellent camera and paired with good optics it is a very competent tool. I am still using a D7000 and I am very happy with it since it fits my photographic style.
Stay with your D7200.

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Aug 28, 2018 08:04:11   #
photoman022 Loc: Manchester CT USA
 
burkphoto wrote:
It costs more... has snob appeal for some.

It performs about one f/stop better in low light than APS-C (there’s less noise, better color) and nearly two stops better than Micro 4/3.

Manufacturers can cram more sensor sites on the imaging chip. This allows bigger prints, tighter cropping, or some of each.

You use a longer lens to get the same field of view at the same distance from a subject. This creates shallower depth of field at the same aperture.

These qualities may, or may not, appeal to you. FF gear is bigger and heavier than APS-C, and MUCH bigger and heavier than Micro 4/3. It is generally more expensive.

There is nothing wrong with any format, so long as it serves its purpose for your needs. Get what makes sense.

Most Photo Labs will tell you that <5% of prints sold are larger than 11x14. Over 90% of images are bound for Internet sharing sites (Facebook, Instagram, etc.). Few of us spend much of our time photographing in dark places.

That said, if you want room to crop, or if you make LARGE landscape images, or if you photograph scenes that will be printed huge and examined from a foot away, full frame gear becomes desirable.
It costs more... has snob appeal for some. br br... (show quote)



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Aug 28, 2018 08:10:01   #
AlfredU Loc: Mooresville, NC
 
hawleyrw wrote:
I had wanted FF for years for only 2 reasons: lower light (since I rarely shoot with flash) and finally getting the right focal length using my lenses. I enjoy the wider capability using the same lenses I was using before without the 1.6x difference.

I'm with you on the 1.6x difference. I bought a cropped sensor camera in 2006. It was the only camera I ever owned that I could never learn to love. In 2015 I went full frame with new lenses that were familiar and comfortable to me. The larger image also brought back greater control over depth of field. There is a reason why photographers who used 8x10 cameras shot f/ 64 most of the time. The larger the image the less inherent depth of field you have. I struggled with that in the film days going from a Rollieflex 6x6 cm to an SLR with 35mm, but finally got used to it. But that was my threshold. Smaller than 35mm images just don't work for me. But that's my problem, having ingrained these habits since I was 14. Cropped sensors work fine for most normal people. By the way, I still shoot my Hasselblad, too.

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Aug 28, 2018 08:13:11   #
Nikon1201
 
I went from a D3100 to a D7100 because the controls are easier to me and it has 2 card slots which I love . My photos are great . I also have a D80 as a second camera. No need to upgrade . I

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Aug 28, 2018 08:16:51   #
AlfredU Loc: Mooresville, NC
 
camerapapi wrote:
Today cropped cameras do as well as full frame, are less expensive and last a lifetime. In the beginning, when buying a full frame camera cost an eye and a leg their low light performance was superior to cropped sensors and photographers, used to shoot with film, saw the advantage to them of using a camera that offered the same view as a 35mm camera with the same lenses used for film. As you know, eventually many lenses for the FX format complimented the camera and the professional photographer had now a camera with lenses to cope with any situation.
In the meantime progress in technology began to make the gap narrower between DX and FX bodies. The new cameras are excellent in low light and there are now lenses of excellent quality to also cope with any situation. The advantage of the "digital factor" is still important for those photographers that engage in sports and wildlife photography often. Using the DX format they have with those lenses more reach.
I have never used one but I know the D7200 is an excellent camera and paired with good optics it is a very competent tool. I am still using a D7000 and I am very happy with it since it fits my photographic style.
Stay with your D7200.
Today cropped cameras do as well as full frame, ar... (show quote)

I agree with everything you said, except saying you get more reach with a 1.6x cropped sensor. If you crop your image from the same lens and crop the image 1.6 X in post you have the same reach with the full frame sensor.

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Aug 28, 2018 08:23:58   #
RKL349 Loc: Connecticut
 
burkphoto wrote:
It costs more... has snob appeal for some.

It performs about one f/stop better in low light than APS-C (there’s less noise, better color) and nearly two stops better than Micro 4/3.

Manufacturers can cram more sensor sites on the imaging chip. This allows bigger prints, tighter cropping, or some of each.

You use a longer lens to get the same field of view at the same distance from a subject. This creates shallower depth of field at the same aperture.

These qualities may, or may not, appeal to you. FF gear is bigger and heavier than APS-C, and MUCH bigger and heavier than Micro 4/3. It is generally more expensive.

There is nothing wrong with any format, so long as it serves its purpose for your needs. Get what makes sense.

Most Photo Labs will tell you that <5% of prints sold are larger than 11x14. Over 90% of images are bound for Internet sharing sites (Facebook, Instagram, etc.). Few of us spend much of our time photographing in dark places.

That said, if you want room to crop, or if you make LARGE landscape images, or if you photograph scenes that will be printed huge and examined from a foot away, full frame gear becomes desirable.
It costs more... has snob appeal for some. br br... (show quote)


This is excellent advice. Thanks for your perspective.

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Aug 28, 2018 08:24:53   #
AlfredU Loc: Mooresville, NC
 
Gene51 wrote:
For uncropped images, a bigger sensor is magnified less than a crop sensor, which usually has a positive impact.

Image quality differences are most notable on small prit's viewed up close. It's not about making big prints. With as little as 8 mp you can make entire wall-sized murals. This link busts some misconceptions about print resulution and print size.

http://www.photokaboom.com/photography/learn/printing/resolution/1_which_resolution_print_size_viewing_distance.htm

Until recently, only the full frame lenses were "fast" ie., larger maximum apertures.

Because of shrines losses due to diffraction, the full frame sensor has the least negative impact when using smaller apertures. One can use a full frame camera at F11 and still be able to record extremely fine detail, while the APS-C camera will start to lose fine detail at F8 and the M4/3 at F5.6.

For studio, landscape and architectural/real estate photography, you can get a variety of lenses that offer tilt and shift. While you can use them on APS-C cameras, the focal lengths that these are available in are really optimized for full frame.

Build quality is usually better on full frame cameras and lenses, but as the industry consolidates on smaller cameras and the public demands better quality, there are more options.

These are very broad generalizations. I use both full frame and a very good bridge camera with a 1" sensor.

Don't believe the myths that you need more mega pixels to make larger prints, or that you can't make a giant print from a tiny sensor. Just take a look around, and you'll see Apple bilboards that show images taken with their iPhones, and they look great.
For uncropped images, a bigger sensor is magnified... (show quote)

Do you know that 1 inch sensor in your bridge camera is probably just over a half inch long? Check the specs and see. Manufacturers started calling it that because they used to think you measured the entire sensor housing, which they stretched to an inch somehow. This is a despicable practice in advertising that should be outlawed.

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Aug 28, 2018 08:28:37   #
delottphoto
 
In my opinion, from a business point of view, I look at costs! The D7200 is a BARGAIN! Additionally with changing technologies, your investment has been very small with the D7200 and you can more easily afford the next generation that will be for sure around the corner.



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Aug 28, 2018 08:38:59   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
mdpathjp wrote:
I would be interested in the so called desirability of full frame cameras; they are bigger, heavier and cost more as do the lens. Is it printing? My Nikon D7200 makes beautiful 16x20 prints. I just don't understand why photographers seem biased toward this format.


Now you have FF versus Mirrorless.....First of all the new FF cameras are no longer bigger, heavier and cost more, look at the Sony A9, A7riii and A7iii, all are FF but Mirrorless (however with regard to optics, quality is always expensive). Secondly, most 'Professional' photographers have a lot of money invested in their FF gear that they've been using for years and for good reason, it works. I don't see a big bias either way since most 'choose' to use what they want for their own particular needs. And yes, you always hear arguments and bloviating about the FF/APS-C issue, most of its hype and a lot just for argument sake. Third, choose what format you want to shoot with and don't concern yourself with what other people choose, do or say...you have no control of them...

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Aug 28, 2018 08:53:55   #
dcampbell52 Loc: Clearwater Fl
 
mdpathjp wrote:
I would be interested in the so called desirability of full frame cameras; they are bigger, heavier and cost more as do the lens. Is it printing? My Nikon D7200 makes beautiful 16x20 prints. I just don't understand why photographers seem biased toward this format.


Full frame cameras will ALSO shoot DX (crop) as a selection. They have larger pixels (roughly 1/3rd larger than DX cropped) so they tend to have better color and resolution.. (theoretically and depending on age of each camera..) I have a Full Frame D610 and 2 DX Nikons D7000 and D7100. The major thing for me (as I really like my D7xxx cameras) is that if I am shooting "normal" to "wide" shots, I use the FX as a 24mm lens on the FX is going to give you the width of a 24mm.. On the DX Crop sensor, that 24mm becomes roughly a 36mm so you would have to back up some more to get the same field of view). For me, If I am shooting under a 100mm lens, I will probably shoot FX. If I want the apparent benefit of the telephoto, I would shoot that 50mm lens on the DX. My 50mm is an f/1.2 and that gives me a roughly 75mm f/1.2 lens on the DX. My 80-400 zoom become similar to a 120-600mm etc. So, I try to use each camera body to it's best function. Portraits, wide shots etc. probably will be on the FX... Mid to telephoto will probably be on the DX. But that is just me and I carry the Nikon D7100 with my 80-400 on it and the 50mm or a wide angle on the D610 when in the field.

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Aug 28, 2018 08:57:45   #
waegwan Loc: Mae Won Li
 
mdpathjp wrote:
I would be interested in the so called desirability of full frame cameras; they are bigger, heavier and cost more as do the lens. Is it printing? My Nikon D7200 makes beautiful 16x20 prints. I just don't understand why photographers seem biased toward this format.


There are full frame cameras with limited features and there are full featured crop sensor cameras. I use a full frame with limited features only because I prefer how my lenses perform on it. I had a full featured crop and I gave it away, something I with I hadn't, because I didn't use it much anymore. It was an excellent camera and great for sports and BIF but wide angle was not as wide as I was used to and DOF was not the same as full frame. So in my case I prefer full frame. Other than that a good crop camera is just as good or better depending on the full frame.

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Aug 28, 2018 09:05:15   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
mdpathjp wrote:
I would be interested in the so called desirability of full frame cameras; they are bigger, heavier and cost more as do the lens. Is it printing? My Nikon D7200 makes beautiful 16x20 prints. I just don't understand why photographers seem biased toward this format.


Sounds like a case of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If your equipment is performing as YOU need it and providing results YOU want. You do not need to upgrade.

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Aug 28, 2018 09:16:06   #
Crombie
 
A few years back a client needed 30x40 color prints for display in the lobby of their City Hall. I'd shot with a humble MFT Panasonic G1 which was just fine for their website. I'm a pro and the JPEGs were good straight out the camera and the question was what would they look like as 30x40's???


There was a public reception gig and in attendance were members of the local camera club who had a close-up look and after critical examination I was asked if I'd shoot with a 4x5 camera and a news shooter with a brace of D4's flat-out questioned my honesty!

If a photographer is sloppy then RAW files from a FF camera will certainly help in corrective PP, a harsh judgement on my part but I'm too not far of the mark with this observation.

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