Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast

The plane depicted in your avatar appears to be an Avro Lancaster, though it's difficult to identify the variant. The picture appears of recent vintage so it's either a Mk1 or a Mk X as there are only two Lancasters flying; one in the UK (Mk 1) and one in Canada (Mk X). I'm guessing that's the Mk 1, PA474.

EdJ0307 Loc: out west someplace

Found this chart on Wikipedia. Makes me wonder why we need so many carriers, more than all the other 'operating nations' combined. I guess it's to maintain out status as the "World's Police Man".

(Download)

EdJ0307 Loc: out west someplace

We didn't just stand back and watch, we supplied the Brits and Russians with tons of material and equipment.

England, France and other League of Nation countries stood back and watched as Hitler invaded one country after the other. I saw news reels of Chamberlain getting off that plane waving a piece of paper in the air and saying "Peace in our time"? That went on from the mid 1930s until September 3rd, 1939, when they decided they better do something. Even then he invaded more countries until it was only England left standing. If Hitler had concentrated on England instead of going after the Russians, the UK might have been one of his trophies.

Of the ships sunk or damaged at Pearl Harbor all but three were repaired: the USS Arizona (too badly damaged to be salvaged), the USS Oklahoma (raised but considered to be too old to be worth repairing), and the USS Utah (also considered obsolete).

BTW, the 'J' word is derogatory.

viscountdriver Loc: East Kent UK

A thoughtful contribution but is it not possible missile defence will advance ? I would guess the US is already advanced as probably are the Israelis

viscountdriver Loc: East Kent UK

You did not supply goods for nothing. Countries such as Bermuda had to be handed over and some payment was demanded.
If the RAF had not beaten back the Luftwafe you would be next on the list.You were not as prepared as the Germans.

Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast

Hmm, that's somewhat of a glib explanation. We tend to look at history with the lens of the present and that skews things.

Most everybody knew that war was coming in the run up to 1939. England was working feverishly to build up its defenses, such as the Supermarine Spitfire, the Chain Home radar system, the Avro Lancaster and yes, aircraft carriers and battleships, etc. France had the largest army in the world at that time, along with the most tanks and quite an air force as well. They were sitting pretty behind the horribly expensive Maginot Line as the plan was for the invading armies of Germany to go through Belgium in order to get to France proper.

Before Hitler (Time Magazine's Man Of the Year 1938) invaded Czechoslovakia in 1938, he invited Mussolini, Daladier and Chamberlain to a conference where they agreed to the Munich Agreement that allowed Hitler to annex the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia and stop there. I seriously doubt anyone thought that would hold, but I believe that Chamberlain was stalling for time as England was not ready in 1938. When Hitler annexed the Sudetenland and then continued and gobbled up most of Czechoslovakia, Hitler was gambling the Allies would not stop him.

He was right, the Allies did nothing. I'm sure people remembered the horrors of WW1 (just 20 years prior) and were not anxious to restart that again.

Then when Hitler invaded Poland a year later, accompanied by his buddy Stalin, the Allies final reached their limit. I have read accounts that said Chamberlain verified with Air Command and others to see if they could hold against the Luftwaffe and when he was told they could, the rest is history.

BTW, England was not alone even after France fell in 1940. When England declared war on Germany on September 2nd, 1939, it was with New Zealand, Australia and India behind it. A few days later, South Africa also declared war on Germany. A couple days after that, the Deranged Dominion (Canada) also declared war on Germany. Where the other countries supplied troops to England, Canada also provided an industrial base for munitions, aircraft and tanks, nothing the size of the US, but they built a lot of Lancaster bombers.

Now, whether Hitler could have invaded England will remain one of those "historical what ifs" forever. The Battle of Britain was quite decisive; the Luftwaffe failed to destroy the RAF and without air superiority, let alone air dominance, any attempt to invade England from France was most probably doomed to failure. Also, the Royal Navy was the dominant sea power in those days, and it would have reduced an invasion fleet to flotsam in short order, especially with the RAF flying cover. The U-Boats would not have been able to do much of anything in the English Channel, they were best far out at sea, out of the reach of aircraft. Operating in the Channel would have been suicide.

In my opinion, Churchill was absolutely right when he praised the RAF Fighter Command right after the Battle of Britain had been won. They really did save England.

The next existential danger England faced was the U-boat menace in 1941-43 but when they finally got that under control, there was no longer any danger of England capitulating.

RichieC Loc: Adirondacks

First a "boarder" pays rent and gets meals... but they pay up front. The exact opposite of what your criminal friends do.

Immigrants are legal, trespassers are criminals as soon as they cross our BORDER or stay without permission. We are indeed a country made up by millions of LEGAL immigrants, without the many that were rejected or repelled because they presented a danger or liability to our country. When a trespasser, (or liberal describing them), erroneously applies the term "immigrant" to a tresspasser, they are just putting lipstick on a pig. Maybe you find it seductive, I don't.

Too many honest, hard working, law abiding, good and decent people & families from all over the world that have dreamed of coming here, and are tying to by following the law, who want to become full fledeged tax paying American citizens- but are being prevented from doing so because of the staggering weight & costs of so many illegals... You just can't count on their future vote to care at all about the sort of people who built this country that you reference- you soil their honor by lumping the two together... so you throw your support to criminals.

And that is what it is all about- somebody who wants to work for a living, buy a house with all the fixings, and pay taxes.... these sorts are not under your control of giveaways and perks, thus they very well may not vote the way you want them to...

G Brown Loc: Sunny Bognor Regis West Sussex UK

Duh.!!....They did going in and also retreating out.....And again when they tried the second invasion. Think you will find that the only place not bombed in the WW11 was the USA mainland.

not that it matters

viscountdriver Loc: East Kent UK

Your summing up is largely correct I know because I am 96 years old and during the war I was one of those RAF pilots that fought to defend Britain and it might be said,America.The Battle of Briitain was probably a draw but the Luftwaffe could not defeat us and Hitler was probably
more interested in Russia, The ME 109 was as good as the Spitfire and the FW190 for a time was better.

G Brown Loc: Sunny Bognor Regis West Sussex UK

You will find that we paid back 'lease lend' in the late 1980's which is when we could ask the US to leave Greenham Common (US aircraft base in the South of England) The Cold War was well over by then.

Trouble is that this is OLD history now. Russia is invading the countries that gained indipendence from the USSR now. The UK has only a minimal presence there. We are sending 'advisors' to countries facing 'civil' war and building sanctuaries for refugees from war in several countries in Africa etc. This is probably going to be 'what war' will be in the future.
The consequence of not having a 'standing armed force' is that everyone questions the costs. More money is needed to combat extremists and to give the notion of 'Civil Protection'. This goes to the secret services and the police....we rarely mobilise our armed forces inside the UK. (Natural disasters apart)
This means that our troups get less 'real fire' training and less equipment.
We keep being told we are a 'World Power' but....Are we?

Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast

Yeah, the Battle of Britain was a draw in terms of losses and so on, but since the goal of the offensive was to eliminate the Luftwaffe, in that sense the Germans lost that battle, and eventually the war. Having an unsinkable aircraft carrier within spitting distance of the coast is not a good thing in the long run. (Looping back to the thread here.)

And it was not just Britain you were defending, it was the whole world when you get right down to it.

Well done.

viscountdriver Loc: East Kent UK

No we are not our army is too small and I believe a 1000 marines are to bu cut and two ships to be laid up. We don't have the money and we are too far in debt.

Yankeepapa6 Loc: New York City

Yeah. You are a real hero. Hitler used Chamberlain for his blow up doll. "Try and fight" is a good description. It did not amount to much. Too bad the British didn't have the balls to stand up to him. Instead, they allowed him to outmaneuver and control them. If Chamberlain had the balls to defend the UK's alliance with Czechoslovakia it might have been different. Instead the British threw in the towel. At that point, Hitler knew they were ballless. Before the US entered the war there were convoys to the UK from the US in violation of our neutrality. Did you really think the UK had the means to support itself with the Germans in so much in control of the seas? When Japan attacked Hawaii did massive amounts of war supplies and personnel head to the Pacific. No. It went to the UK. The Americans in the Pacific did not get the aid and support they should have. There was a tremendous loss of American lives. The initial bulk of American aid and war materials went to that little island next to Ireland.
Hero's you are not

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast

Your post is what is known as a target-rich environment. I suspect you did not read my earlier diatribe about Chamberlain and Hitler at Munich. I won't repeat it here, scroll back up.

The US was not really in convoys prior to our entry into the war 76 years ago this week. The Royal Canadian Navy was protecting the Canadian Merchant marine and any other allied ship in convoys from North America to Britain. The US sold (loaned) 50 obsolescent destroyers to Britain and Canada got something like 17 of them which were added to the escort duty. In return for that sale (loan) the US got bases in Newfoundland, Bermuda and other places and was able to extend its Neutrality Zone and support its Neutrality Patrol. We were not involved in protecting convoys coming from Canada past Newfoundland, that was all RCN, RCAF, RN and RAF until about September 1941. The first US ship sunk by a U-boat was the USS Reuben James on October 31, 1941.

Anyway, you might want to read about the Battle of the Atlantic and specifically about Operation Drumbeat and how the US focus on Japan allowed Germany to sing ships up and down the East Coast months after Pearl Harbor.

I should point out that the attack on Pearl Harbor was designed to essentially neutralize the US as a force in the western Pacific, and it did just that. We were not ready for war with Japan and we could not hit back for quite a while, which is why Doolittle's raid was such a morale booster. It took time to build new ships and new and better aircraft. The lines of communication and supplies were VERY long across the Pacific and the US presence was all controlled by Pearl Harbor which was in disarray for a while.