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D500 + FX lens, versus Z8 (DX mode or cropping) + FTZ adapter and same FX lens : performance comparison
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May 26, 2023 14:26:49   #
srsincary Loc: Cary, NC
 
I am sure that several UHH folks are interested in that 'study', since the wait for the mythical Z90, the 'ideal' Nikon mirrorless replacement for the D500 for wildlife, could be a long one.

In Raleigh, NC at least, where we have two brick and mortar camera stores, even checking out a Z8 in the store will take a few weeks, and renting one will involve a wait of a few months (they only rent returns and trade-ins). I don't care to buy the camera to just test this combo, then return it if not happy with the much more expensive replacement of the D500, if the performance gain is only marginal due to the better sensor and AF-C with EXPEED 7 (while losing 1 MP in sensor size).

If any new Z8 users do conduct such a study (I am aware that user HRBIEL will), please share your findings here.

Thanks much in advance.

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May 26, 2023 14:30:01   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
srsincary wrote:
the wait for the mythical Z90, the 'ideal' Nikon mirrorless replacement for the D500 for wildlife, could be a long one.


Yes, just remember how long the wait was for the D500
.

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May 26, 2023 15:51:06   #
MG Audet
 
I can only say having used the Z9 for six months, and given that the Z8 is a junior version with much the same power and features at a reduced weight of 30%, that the Z8 will outperform the D500 using F mount lenses with the adapter. I have owned the D500 and the 500mm pf as well as the D850 and can vouch for the performance of all of my F mounts with the Z9. It was a big improvement in IQ and focus acquisition. Good luck with your decision.

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May 26, 2023 16:47:20   #
srsincary Loc: Cary, NC
 
MG Audet wrote:
I can only say having used the Z9 for six months, and given that the Z8 is a junior version with much the same power and features at a reduced weight of 30%, that the Z8 will outperform the D500 using F mount lenses with the adapter. I have owned the D500 and the 500mm pf as well as the D850 and can vouch for the performance of all of my F mounts with the Z9. It was a big improvement in IQ and focus acquisition. Good luck with your decision.


Thank you, MG Audet, for your response. When using the 500 PF on a distant subject
on the Z9, did you shoot in DX mode to get the same "reach" as on the D500, or did you shoot in FX mode and crop in post as needed, or is the result from the IQ perspective the same either way?

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May 26, 2023 17:53:23   #
MG Audet
 
Good question. I have used the 500 PF as my long reach lens on the Z9. Firstly, since the Z9 (and the Z8) are very easy to setup a quick switch from FX to DX via one of the custom buttons, I very often first shoot in FZ mode to take advantage of all the MP the camera has, knowing I will usually crop a bird photo. Next, I hit my custom button to switch immediately (to get the same shot) but in DX mode. As far as IQ they seem to render equally. Also, to max out my 500PF I have shot periodically with a TC 1.4 on the Z9 (it works better, meaning acquires focus) much better than on the D850. The Z9 and the Z8 "help" F mount lenses to perform better. However, in the short time I have owned the Z9 and purchased the Z lenses, the Z lenses outperform their F mount counterparts on the Z body. Hope this helps.
Michael

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May 26, 2023 19:36:45   #
srsincary Loc: Cary, NC
 
MG Audet wrote:
Good question. I have used the 500 PF as my long reach lens on the Z9. Firstly, since the Z9 (and the Z8) are very easy to setup a quick switch from FX to DX via one of the custom buttons, I very often first shoot in FZ mode to take advantage of all the MP the camera has, knowing I will usually crop a bird photo. Next, I hit my custom button to switch immediately (to get the same shot) but in DX mode. As far as IQ they seem to render equally. Also, to max out my 500PF I have shot periodically with a TC 1.4 on the Z9 (it works better, meaning acquires focus) much better than on the D850. The Z9 and the Z8 "help" F mount lenses to perform better. However, in the short time I have owned the Z9 and purchased the Z lenses, the Z lenses outperform their F mount counterparts on the Z body. Hope this helps.
Michael
Good question. I have used the 500 PF as my long ... (show quote)


Michael,
thank you very much for the detailed answer. You covered all my questions.

I shoot wildlife with a D500, 300mm PF f/4 + TC 1.4Eiii. The weight is just right for handholding for 2-3 hours given the state of my shoulder, but distant birds are a struggle to capture. I have considered buying a 500mm PF, but at this point in time, I probably should not. Eventually, whatever mirrorless camera I upgrade to (probably the Z8 since the Z90's timeline is uncertain), the Z 400mm f/4.5, which works well with a Z TC 1.4, is what I will invest in for more reach.

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May 26, 2023 21:12:46   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
srsincary wrote:
Michael,
thank you very much for the detailed answer. You covered all my questions.

I shoot wildlife with a D500, 300mm PF f/4 + TC 1.4Eiii. The weight is just right for handholding for 2-3 hours given the state of my shoulder, but distant birds are a struggle to capture. I have considered buying a 500mm PF, but at this point in time, I probably should not. Eventually, whatever mirrorless camera I upgrade to (probably the Z8 since the Z90's timeline is uncertain), the Z 400mm f/4.5, which works well with a Z TC 1.4, is what I will invest in for more reach.
Michael, br thank you very much for the detailed... (show quote)


So, with the D500/300PF you are at 630mm f5.6 FF equiv and with the FF Z8/400 and 1.4X you are at 560mm f6.3 FF or 840mm cropped and the cropped Z8 and D500 MP count are so close as to be identical. AF on the Z8 should be faster and more accurate.

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May 26, 2023 22:04:55   #
MG Audet
 
You've taken pretty much the same route/option I did with the 300 PF, maxing it out with a TC. The advantage with the D850 in the mix is a larger sensor (allowing some cropping) and the ease of shooting in DX. My current strategy is to use my new Z400mm 4.5 on the Z9 -- extremely fast to focus and sharp and light -- overall a beautiful lens to handle. With the Z TC 1.4 on it, I am at 560mm (F/6.3) and much lighter and with a quick change using a function button I am in crop mode, still with 21mp and now an effective focal length of 780mm or so. Total weight with of lens and TC is 2.8# and w/Z9 camera, 5.8#'s. The 500mm PF with adapter (for Z9) and the 1.4TC is 7.2 #'s. Consider using the 400mm with Z8 and TC 1.4 the weight would be 4.8#'s. This is not a bad way to go. All the other options are heavier and more costly -- like the 600mm F/4 or the 800mm F/6.3. It's still a costly proposition.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
Michael

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May 26, 2023 22:08:33   #
MG Audet
 
To build on imagemeister's comment; he is correct. In my shooting the Z9 with the 400mm 4.5 and TC it is faster and yields sharper images, not to mention how much lighter and easier to handle the camera is.

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May 27, 2023 00:43:04   #
srsincary Loc: Cary, NC
 
Thank you, Michael and Imagemeister, for your comments and suggestions.
Z8 + 400mm f/4.5 + TC is theoretically the best direction.
8K$ (4K + 3K + Z TC 1.4 + FTZ adapter) is the practical challenge.

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May 27, 2023 05:49:57   #
ClarkJohnson Loc: Fort Myers, FL and Cohasset, MA
 
srsincary wrote:
Thank you, MG Audet, for your response. When using the 500 PF on a distant subject
on the Z9, did you shoot in DX mode to get the same "reach" as on the D500, or did you shoot in FX mode and crop in post as needed, or is the result from the IQ perspective the same either way?


I have made a similar jump from a D500 to a Z9, using the 500PF. While I know that the DX option exists (I have programmed my Fn2 to make the switch), i have been very satisfied with the results of the cropped FX images. If rigorously tested, the DX and cropped FX would probably be too close to distinguish.

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May 27, 2023 10:17:27   #
srsincary Loc: Cary, NC
 
ClarkJohnson wrote:
I have made a similar jump from a D500 to a Z9, using the 500PF. While I know that the DX option exists (I have programmed my Fn2 to make the switch), i have been very satisfied with the results of the cropped FX images. If rigorously tested, the DX and cropped FX would probably be too close to distinguish.


Thank you, Clark, for sharing your experience!


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May 27, 2023 12:38:46   #
neillaubenthal
 
srsincary wrote:
Thank you, MG Audet, for your response. When using the 500 PF on a distant subject
on the Z9, did you shoot in DX mode to get the same "reach" as on the D500, or did you shoot in FX mode and crop in post as needed, or is the result from the IQ perspective the same either way?


It’s the same either way…I shoot in FX almost all the time because some crops are bigger than DX anyway and keeping the BIF in the viewfinder is easier in FX. The eye AF tends to work a little better if it is struggling in FX then shifting to DX usually helps it lock on to the eye better.

And generally speaking…the Z8/9 focus a little more accurately with F mount lenses than the same lens does on a DSLR because the AF sites are on the sensor so you get a little more accurate focus. Focus speed is the same generally with F lenses on the adapter as on the DSLR…but the Z lenses are generally smaller, lighter, focus faster, and are better optically than their F mount equivalents

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May 27, 2023 12:56:22   #
MG Audet
 
Agree, but I find the F mount lenses focus a bit quicker and sharper on the Z9 (and would guess on the Z8 as well). I am getting higher keeper rates on BIF with the Z9 and Z 400mm F4.5 then I do with the 500 PF mounted on the Z9. That one extra stop on the 400mm F/4.5 and the sensor on the Z9 make the difference.

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May 27, 2023 13:34:56   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
imagemeister wrote:
So, with the D500/300PF you are at 630mm f5.6 FF equiv and with the FF Z8/400 and 1.4X you are at 560mm f6.3 FF or 840mm cropped and the cropped Z8 and D500 MP count are so close as to be identical. AF on the Z8 should be faster and more accurate.


You cheated, you did the math instead of waiting for someone else to figure it out.



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