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Mar 14, 2023 03:31:51   #
The hopper
 
I currently use Lightroom (OK, not too well) and am trying to learn Photoshop. My understanding is that if you do work in Photoshop on a RAW file, you permanently change the file. Firstly, is this correct? and second, does this mean you should create a copy of the original and work on the copy so you don't "corrupt" the original??
Thanks!

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Mar 14, 2023 05:06:04   #
Dik
 
No

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Mar 14, 2023 05:13:24   #
yssirk123 Loc: New Jersey
 
If you use layers you can always reverse any changes made to the original file by deleting the layer(s) even after the changed file has been saved.

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Mar 14, 2023 05:20:05   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
Photoshop do not open RAW files.
If you try to, it will open Adobe Camera Raw, if it is installed or available as a plug-in into your PS software.
The RAW data, to be visible must have a version which is created with the camera settings applied. This is the one that is revised when you edit the RAW.
The main RAW data remains untouched but the adjustments are saved as instructions to apply over it when it is read back/decoded.
You can also make a seperate rasterized version from ACR, and that is the file PS can fully play with.

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Mar 14, 2023 06:06:33   #
Revet Loc: Fairview Park, Ohio
 
When using photoshop, I first enter CTRL j to make a copy of my image on a new layer. Then I turn the original copy off by clicking the eye on the left side of the background layer (original image). Now the pixels in that layer are protected and will not contribute to your edits on the copy.

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Mar 14, 2023 07:30:00   #
bikerguy
 
The hopper wrote:
I currently use Lightroom (OK, not too well) and am trying to learn Photoshop. My understanding is that if you do work in Photoshop on a RAW file, you permanently change the file. Firstly, is this correct? and second, does this mean you should create a copy of the original and work on the copy so you don't "corrupt" the original??
Thanks!


No, when you are finished editing in PS, the file will be saved as either a TIF or PSD. Therefore, your original RAW file is unchanged and still on your computer in its original state and location. Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) is the same engine as the LR develop module. When you open a raw file in PS it will open into ACR where you can make all of the changes that would be made in LR. When you either save the changes or open the file into PS the program creates a sidecar file (.XMP). with the information about the changes made in ACR. The .XMP file contains the same information and acts the same way as the catalog for the individual image. Actually, if you open the raw file in LR after using ACR all of the changes will be visible within the picture but will not show in the left hand panel nor will they be in your catalog.

Bikerguy in lovely Upstate SC

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Mar 14, 2023 07:34:10   #
elliott937 Loc: St. Louis
 
Even though I do not use Photoshop, the first thing I always do is do control-J, which makes an exact copy above the original.

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Mar 14, 2023 07:36:56   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
The hopper wrote:
I currently use Lightroom (OK, not too well) and am trying to learn Photoshop. My understanding is that if you do work in Photoshop on a RAW file, you permanently change the file. Firstly, is this correct? and second, does this mean you should create a copy of the original and work on the copy so you don't "corrupt" the original??
Thanks!


Photoshop is a pixel level editor so you should probably not work on your original in PS. You will want to find a workflow that is easy for you to follow and preserves your originals. Here's mine:

I import all my photos into Lightroom, and do my main editing there. For those I want to work on in Photoshop I choose the Edit In /Photoshop command in LR, and chose Edit A Copy. This leaves my original (raw) file in LR unaltered. Once my Photoshop work is done, I save it as a PSD file back into LR so that it sits down right beside the original, making it easy to find and easy to tell apart from the original.

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Mar 14, 2023 07:39:37   #
Jerry G Loc: Waterford, Michigan and Florida
 
Dik wrote:
No



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Mar 14, 2023 07:41:35   #
pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
 
The hopper wrote:
I currently use Lightroom (OK, not too well) and am trying to learn Photoshop. My understanding is that if you do work in Photoshop on a RAW file, you permanently change the file. Firstly, is this correct? and second, does this mean you should create a copy of the original and work on the copy so you don't "corrupt" the original??
Thanks!


Just a sidenote to you basic premise - If you are having a difficult time with LR what makes you think that PS will be easier? PS is very powerful and thus many times more complicated to use and learn. I think you would be better off mastering LR first and slowly drifting off into PS for those functions that LR does not do, does not do well. If you can't drive a automatic Ford you will not learn to drive a standard 5 speed Massarotti. :)

To help you along here is a set of videos by Anthony Morganti that are well done. There are other free sets of classes but find one and stick with them. Going from author to author is often confusing as their workflow is often different. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLllFqBuTM0WJTD4rpvf748Um9MMmbo4r9

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Mar 14, 2023 09:20:48   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
The hopper wrote:
I currently use Lightroom (OK, not too well) and am trying to learn Photoshop. My understanding is that if you do work in Photoshop on a RAW file, you permanently change the file. Firstly, is this correct? and second, does this mean you should create a copy of the original and work on the copy so you don't "corrupt" the original??
Thanks!

You're bringing up the issue of destructive versus non-destructive editing. There's some confusion concerning the topic. First we're dealing with two different meanings.

1. Non-destructive editing originally and most critically refers to the preservation of the camera original. It's essential that the camera original remain unchanged no matter what. Working with raw files that's pretty close to a guarantee. Our editing software that processes raw files is unable to overwrite the original raw data -- it remains intact.

2. Non-destructive editing also refers to all your editing work. In a raw workflow a destructive editing element is an editing change that freezes your work or fails to update with other changes such that if you return to re-edit the image the destructive element forces you to do some or all of your previous work over in order to effect the re-edit.

Lightroom then provides a raw workflow that is 100% non-destructive and non-linearly re-editable.
Photoshop in a raw workflow is partially non-destructive but not 100%. Some Photoshop editing changes are destructive such that once applied they will force you to do work over unnecessarily if you decide to make changes in the future. It's fair to say that PS is mostly non-destructive, however some of the more common PS functions that likely compel an LR user to take an image to PS in the first place are destructive -- cloning, healing, content aware replace.

The difference derives from the basic structure of the two editors. Lightroom is a parametric editor while Photoshop is a raster or pixel editor. A parametric editor saves your work as an instruction list of what to do whereas a raster editor actually pushes pixels around.

Ideally we want our editing to be fully non-destructive and non-linearly re-editable. If we return to an image after a period of time and wonder what was I thinking or decide that a different treatment might be better or simply that a minor change is in order we don't want to be forced by our software to start over if not necessary. Maybe we want two or more different versions of the image and want to be able to produce those as easily as possible. An editor that introduces destructive elements can monkey wrench our efforts and make the task more cumbersome.

So use LR and make the effort to complete as much of your editing in LR as possible.

P.S. Avoiding PS and using LR has another benefit beyond fully non-destructive editing and that's saving your edits. Because LR is a parametric editor it will save your work using a fraction of the storage space that PS will require to save your work.

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Mar 14, 2023 10:17:22   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
The hopper wrote:
I currently use Lightroom (OK, not too well) and am trying to learn Photoshop. My understanding is that if you do work in Photoshop on a RAW file, you permanently change the file. Firstly, is this correct? and second, does this mean you should create a copy of the original and work on the copy so you don't "corrupt" the original??
Thanks!


The image content of RAW files are read-only. You can strip the EXIF data and / or replace with other values, but you cannot corrupt or change the image content.

You should continue to start in LR Classic. You don't get any benefit of working ACR and PS and skipping LR. If you want to edit primarily in PS, just import into LR and then use your external editor definition to send the file to PS. Look at your PS editor settings and use a PSD in 16-bit and the ProPhotoRGB colorspace. When you save and close the PSD in PS, don't flatten the layers. With the file saved and closed, a 'flattened' version is what you'll see in the LR catalog as LR doesn't 'see' the layers, just the flattened result. Retain your layers in the PSD so you can return to PS for more editing, if needed.

Personally, I'm sure you'd get more out of digital editing by deepening your LR understanding and skills, rather than dabbling in both LR and PS.

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Mar 14, 2023 10:47:47   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
The hopper wrote:
I currently use Lightroom (OK, not too well) and am trying to learn Photoshop. My understanding is that if you do work in Photoshop on a RAW file, you permanently change the file. Firstly, is this correct? and second, does this mean you should create a copy of the original and work on the copy so you don't "corrupt" the original??
Thanks!


1) No

2) No, because original raw files are NOT EDITABLE. By definition, the data is what came off the sensor. It is permanently locked as what it is. You can change the formula for the OUTPUT from that data, but then to view or use that conversion, the raw data must be de-mosaiced and decoded and processed by software. That is what happens when you OPEN the file in ACR (Adobe Camera Raw, which is the Develop module in Lightroom Classic or the ACR filter in Photoshop.)

3) You should always have a backup of your files, in case a drive becomes corrupted or there's a fire or flood or other disaster.

When editing in Lightroom Classic, you are saving ONLY data *about* your original data, plus a small proxy of that converted, edited data. The original file, regardless of file type, is left intact. When you export, print, display as a slide show, paginate as a book, or upload to the web, you are getting a COPY of the original file, WITH CHANGES APPLIED.

In Photoshop, you WILL change any other kind of file other than raw when you save it on top of itself. Raw files are "Save As..." (a different file type) only.

The very conversion of raw camera data to any other file type limits it to the parameters of that conversion. This is why Photoshop offers different bit depths and wide gamut color spaces. It helps you preserve as much of the original data as possible, during the conversion.

Raw file — What the camera recorded, with minimal processing (Raw files include a JPEG preview processed with the menu settings of the camera.)

.PSD and 16-Bit TIFF, in ProPhoto RGB color space — very reasonable conversion choices when working from raw files in Photoshop

16-bit TIFF in Adobe RGB — requested by SOME professional publishers, offset printers, boutique (high end) gicleé printers so they can adjust your files to look best on their equipment, with the least amount of damage

8-bit JPEG in sRGB — used by most professional color labs using silver halide photo paper (Kodak or Fujifilm papers exposed on laser or LED printers and processed in RA-4 or equivalent chemistry) PLUS, used by most of the entire Internet world, on office monitors, by most amateurs, etc.

JPEGs made in the camera "can" be adjusted with post-processing software. However, the best "JPEG capture" workflows rely on controlled lighting, extremely accurate exposure and white balance techniques, and careful setting of the camera menu controls for the JPEG processor. That way, little or no adjustment is required. Set the camera to use the largest possible JPEG pixel dimensions with the highest possible quality/least compression/largest file size. When post processing, use Lightroom Classic so only ONE JPEG save is performed — on export, print, post, paginate, or display.

To "corrupt" a file means to damage a file in such a way that it either cannot be opened, or the contents of the file are partly unusable. Opening and saving a JPEG on top of itself does not corrupt it. It MAY throw away enough data to show noticeable quality loss (jaggies, flat color, ridging in gradient areas, mosquito noise, and other artifacts). That is file degradation, not corruption.

In the pro lab world I used to work in, we set rules that:

> We always worked on COPIES of customer data.

> We would never open and save a JPEG file on top of itself more than twice (and only once in most cases). Save #1 was a color/brightness correction. Save #2 was after portrait retouching or other work in Photoshop.

> We would always save the largest JPEG with the least compression.

This discipline worked fine. When we needed more malleable files, we converted 8-bit JPEG in sRGB to 16-bit .PSD or TIFF in ProPhoto RGB, did our complex edits, then saved back to 12-quality or "100"-quality JPEG at 8-bits and sRGB color. This preserved maximum quality with maximum flexibility for multiple saves during adjustments.

I know that is more than you asked for, but hope that it broadens your understanding of why you have the options you do.

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Mar 14, 2023 18:29:45   #
The hopper
 
Thanks everyone ... I appreciate the input!!!

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Mar 14, 2023 19:42:42   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
The hopper wrote:
I currently use Lightroom (OK, not too well) and am trying to learn Photoshop. My understanding is that if you do work in Photoshop on a RAW file, you permanently change the file. Firstly, is this correct? and second, does this mean you should create a copy of the original and work on the copy so you don't "corrupt" the original??
Thanks!


You do not change the raw file with any editor (except for dng files).

However it is always a good idea to create a copy for backup. It doesn’t matter whether you edit using the original or the copy since they will be identical. File corruption is rare but it happens so a backup is insurance.

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