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Noise!
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Feb 18, 2023 21:52:00   #
Grahame Loc: Fiji
 
dhsackett wrote:
These were taken on my deck. I have taken many! pictures of clouds off this deck and never seen this problem. (I can't hold the camera steady at 1/60).

dhsackett wrote:
Thanks to everyone who responded. I got these lines on 4 exposures (all at high F-stops). Not seen before or since.

It's extremely unlikely that the lines have anything to do with the settings of your camera at the time, they are absolutely nothing unusual.

It's also good news that you say you have not seen them again, but the puzzle remains.

It could have been something affecting the sensor, the data recording in the camera, card write or possibly the down load to PC. It could also possibly be an intermittent fault and it may be worth diagnosing further, especially if this is a new camera to you and there is any warranty involved.

If it were mine I would do the following;

a) Look at the 4 images to see if the lines are in identical places, that sort of info could give a tech a clue in the future. Retain those 4 images.

b) Undertake some more careful testing, similar settings and scene and look for similar anomalies.

c) Possibly contact Canon and show them the anomaly, they may have seen it before and know the answer.

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Feb 18, 2023 23:10:56   #
Jack 13088 Loc: Central NY
 
If you never explain it then claim it was due to a Chinese surveillance balloon passing over.

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Feb 19, 2023 11:18:25   #
dhsackett
 
Tried it. No white lines.

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Feb 19, 2023 19:13:13   #
dhsackett
 
In case anyone cares. They were all taken on the same day, and developed from RAW with Affinity photo. The RAW images do not have the anomalies. I have not seen this since

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Feb 20, 2023 01:30:49   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
dhsackett wrote:
.....The RAW images do not have the anomalies.....


That's probably the most relevant fact that you've posted so far.

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Feb 20, 2023 08:05:14   #
Jack 13088 Loc: Central NY
 
dhsackett wrote:
The RAW images do not have the anomalies.

So how did you determine the RAW does not have the anomalies? How did you view the developed images? I don’t know Affinity at all but did you view the imbedded jpeg instead?

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Feb 24, 2023 05:16:58   #
paulrnzpn Loc: New Zealand
 
First, there is the ISO to consider. Higher ISO equals more noise.
Second is the camera's sensor. Full frame sensors are generally better at dealing with noise issues than APS-C sensor cameras are. And the sensors in newer cameras tend to be a lot better than the older digital cameras are as well, when it comes to noise issues. For example, with my old Canon 600D (and with APS-C sensor) I hardly ever shot higher than ISO-100 because I hate noise. However, when I got my 5D Mark IV (full frame sensor) I found I can shot ISO-200 and ISO-400 and get great results when it come to noise. I don't even mind shooting at even higher ISO than 400 now in fact. And I personally know other folk with new Sony mirrorless cameras who do professional work and shoot high ISO no worries as well.

However...
There is always more digital noise in the dark shadows no matter what. So dark photos, by default, tend to have a lot more noise than light photos. So taking lighter photos and making them darker in post can often minimize this issue.

Also, you usually get a lot more noise in long exposures. This is why a lot of cameras have a built-in 'Long Exposure Noise Reduction' function. But there is a way to get much better results than what the camera's function will give you, so it is better to turn it off (it is turned on by default in most, if not all, cameras) if you want the very best quality image possible. Instead of using this camera's function, you take multiple shots (use tripod, and camera in M-mode, and on manual focus as well) and stack them in photoshop and process as a set. The thing is, noise is random, so each 'identical' exposure you shoot will have different noise, and so you can virtually eliminate it in post if you have enough exposures to stack and process.
Mark Gee does this. I have met Mark in person a few times and he talks about this very process. Mark Gee's work is world famous, and yet he is a hobbyist photographer. If you don't know Mark Gee's work, he does lots of very impressive and top quality long exposure astro and timelapse. Here is his website:
https://theartofnight.com/

And true, you cannot hold a camera steady at 1/60. You need to use a tripod to do that.

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Feb 24, 2023 11:02:12   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
paulrnzpn wrote:
First, there is the ISO to consider. Higher ISO equals more noise.
Second is the camera's sensor. Full frame sensors are generally better at dealing with noise issues than APS-C sensor cameras are. And the sensors in newer cameras tend to be a lot better than the older digital cameras are as well, when it comes to noise issues. For example, with my old Canon 600D (and with APS-C sensor) I hardly ever shot higher than ISO-100 because I hate noise. However, when I got my 5D Mark IV (full frame sensor) I found I can shot ISO-200 and ISO-400 and get great results when it come to noise. I don't even mind shooting at even higher ISO than 400 now in fact. And I personally know other folk with new Sony mirrorless cameras who do professional work and shoot high ISO no worries as well.

However...
There is always more digital noise in the dark shadows no matter what. So dark photos, by default, tend to have a lot more noise than light photos. So taking lighter photos and making them darker in post can often minimize this issue.

Also, you usually get a lot more noise in long exposures. This is why a lot of cameras have a built-in 'Long Exposure Noise Reduction' function. But there is a way to get much better results than what the camera's function will give you, so it is better to turn it off (it is turned on by default in most, if not all, cameras) if you want the very best quality image possible. Instead of using this camera's function, you take multiple shots (use tripod, and camera in M-mode, and on manual focus as well) and stack them in photoshop and process as a set. The thing is, noise is random, so each 'identical' exposure you shoot will have different noise, and so you can virtually eliminate it in post if you have enough exposures to stack and process.
Mark Gee does this. I have met Mark in person a few times and he talks about this very process. Mark Gee's work is world famous, and yet he is a hobbyist photographer. If you don't know Mark Gee's work, he does lots of very impressive and top quality long exposure astro and timelapse. Here is his website:
https://theartofnight.com/

And true, you cannot hold a camera steady at 1/60. You need to use a tripod to do that.
First, there is the ISO to consider. Higher ISO eq... (show quote)


1/60 is a very reasonable speed to shoot a 50mm lens handheld, even without IBIS. With IBIS (which the camera had) and a static scene, there’s no reason that a tripod is required.

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Feb 24, 2023 16:08:54   #
paulrnzpn Loc: New Zealand
 
TriX wrote:
1/60 is a very reasonable speed to shoot a 50mm lens handheld, even without IBIS. With IBIS (which the camera had) and a static scene, there’s no reason that a tripod is required.


Fair enough. Personally though, I'd never shoot 1/60 without a tripod, and especially for subjects that are far away such as the photo given for this discussion, and that's no matter what lens.
Each to their own I guess and I don't argue, I just share good pointers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJJDr4P7hDY
6 Reasons Your Photos are not SHARP

HERE'S WHY YOUR PHOTOS AREN'T SHARP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDhetGhS8sU


(Download)

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Feb 24, 2023 16:55:49   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
paulrnzpn wrote:
Fair enough. Personally though, I'd never shoot 1/60 without a tripod, and especially for subjects that are far away such as the photo given for this discussion, and that's no matter what lens.
Each to their own I guess and I don't argue, I just share good pointers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJJDr4P7hDY
6 Reasons Your Photos are not SHARP

HERE'S WHY YOUR PHOTOS AREN'T SHARP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDhetGhS8sU
Fair enough. Personally though, I'd never shoot 1... (show quote)


Certainly, there is less noise at lower ISO as the image below shows - no dispute. My observation is that the second image would profit greatly from a quick pass through Topaz AI Sharpen and perhaps AI Denoise. I also have a Canon 5D4 and I’m regularly forced (by low light) to shoot indoor sports at ISOs 6400-12800. I do use Topaz products to clean up noise and sharpen, and I have had some of those images published. My point being that while a lower ISO as always preferred, don’t be afraid of higher ISOs if necessary to get the shot - just shoot raw and use appropriate PP SW.

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Feb 24, 2023 20:37:23   #
paulrnzpn Loc: New Zealand
 
TriX wrote:
Certainly, there is less noise at lower ISO as the image below shows - no dispute. My observation is that the second image would profit greatly from a quick pass through Topaz AI Sharpen and perhaps AI Denoise. I also have a Canon 5D4 and I’m regularly forced (by low light) to shoot indoor sports at ISOs 6400-12800. I do use Topaz products to clean up noise and sharpen, and I have had some of those images published. My point being that while a lower ISO as always preferred, don’t be afraid of higher ISOs if necessary to get the shot - just shoot raw and use appropriate PP SW.
Certainly, there is less noise at lower ISO as the... (show quote)


Yep, I know. I do use a much higher ISO when I am really forced to, but it is always my last resort. And I still don't use any denoise software.
One time I was shooting a game of rugby at night, outdoors and with the big floodlights on. Floodlights still don't do the job of the sun though and I was using my long and 'slow' Tamron SP 150-600mm lens (slow as in it is f/5-6.3) and so in that case I had no choice but to increase the ISO a lot more than what I usually shoot at. When you have to do it, well, you have to do it.

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