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Nitpicking points to ponder
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Aug 16, 2019 10:50:34   #
BudsOwl Loc: Upstate NY and New England
 
Another waste of time post.

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Aug 16, 2019 11:10:53   #
photogeneralist Loc: Lopez Island Washington State
 
Wallen wrote:
A lot of Uglies (hehe) take sides on just about any topic. The worst happens when it is about professional gear and processing.
I might be mistaken but i believe we should define the terms precisely so everyone would be looking at the same apple.

A. A professional is someone who earns their living from their activity.
It does not always mean they are experts in their careers, just that they are earning out of it.
An attitude or way that directly improves the activity

B. An amateur does things for the love of doing it. They do not get paid and although it also means incompetent, many amateurs are far better and knowledgeable than some professionals.

C. Hobbyist are those who endure serious leisure pursuit having no significant professional counterpart and being too poorly remunerated to constitute a livelihood. Hobbies are usually, but not always, practiced primarily for interest and enjoyment, rather than financial reward.


Well if we look at the above meanings, then:
1. There is no such thing as a hobby photographer as photography is a career choice.
2. There is no limit to what can be called a professional camera. Professional is the person and whatever that person is using is a professional tool. Is there an entry level hammer? or an entry level phone?
3. If we look at boxers, we can also see that being a professional does not always mean you get better the longer you are into it.
4. If someone get paid, he is no longer an amateur but either good or bad professional
5. Professional only means there is money involved. An amateur racer, basketball player and so on, do not get a power up just because he signs a contract.
6. Professional only means there is money involved. The more he can rely on it as a primary means of living then the more professional he gets.
7. A Celphone is a professional camera when used by Pollock.
8. A Nikon F is an amature camera
9. The Canon 7D is expensive
10. Just like fish and meat, some like it raw, some like it scooc
11. Neutral grey will join the nearest software.
12. If you are reading this, perhaps you now understand the absurdity of some of the things being discussed.

We are all in the same boat, let us learn together instead of butting heads and rowing our own way...

Hedgehogs in all their prickly glory can sit side by side together in the same den because they are family.
A lot of Uglies (hehe) take sides on just about an... (show quote)


What we choose to call it doesn't change what it is.

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Aug 16, 2019 12:02:11   #
mborn Loc: Massachusetts
 
Silverrails wrote:
This is a "who Cares" moment, Each person has their own interests, hobbies, career, etc, in Life. As long as they enjoy what they do, and do not infringe on other's personal space, they are entitled to their own belief or opinion. So, all the "Gib & Gab of other individuals, is like "Dust in the Wind", gone in the Blink of an Eye. (My Opinion.)


Agree

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Aug 16, 2019 12:04:23   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
"Professional" unofficially implies standards not just pay for services.

Reply
Aug 16, 2019 12:35:41   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
Silverrails wrote:
This is a "who Cares" moment, Each person has their own interests, hobbies, career, etc, in Life. As long as they enjoy what they do, and do not infringe on other's personal space, they are entitled to their own belief or opinion. So, all the "Gib & Gab of other individuals, is like "Dust in the Wind", gone in the Blink of an Eye. (My Opinion.)



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Aug 16, 2019 12:38:51   #
flashgordonbrown Loc: Silverdale, WA
 
Collhar wrote:
Pollock????? Are you some kind of stupid???


Yeah, I found that statement a bit fishy myself- for Pollock, a can of housepaint and a wooden floor constituted a 'fine art' masterpiece! I never understood the attraction! Goes to show how unsophisticated I am!

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Aug 16, 2019 12:40:53   #
fehutch Loc: gulfport, ms
 
Have to pretty much agree with this post. My take here is there is a lot of unfounded criticism and opinionated advice given. In my background, the camera doesn’t matter, it is the result and how much it pleases the photographer that counts in the final analysis. I have gallery displayed everything from cell phone to 6x6 cm film based images. Not everyone enjoyed them. Enough did to warrant display. Nuff said.

Folks bragging about how a D7500 is so much better than a Z259 is irrelevant. I particularly enjoy the swapping a 50 to 500 for a 60 to 600. Really? Who cares? Let’s see the result and decide. (I made up model numbers etc. as typical examples.)

I have largely ignored long winded opinions on UHH. Read and enjoyed, but ignored as irrelevant. Sources seem generally from a house of cards. take from it what you can; ignore the rest. Camera “penis envy” is rampant.

Alexander Pope: Essay On Criticism - ‘Tis with our judgements as our watches, none go just alike, but each believes his own.

Keep posting, I’m still reading.

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Aug 16, 2019 13:35:22   #
Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona
 
HOHIMER wrote:
Although difficult, I abstain from comment as a result of the wisdom imparted to me by my dear departed Mother.


Sir your mother was a wise woman and you learned well. I commend you.

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Aug 16, 2019 13:54:12   #
domcomm Loc: Denver, CO
 
I think one thing needs to be added to A. Some people call themselves professional just because they make money from it, but their work is not of professional quality. To be a true professional, you also need professional-level training (not a high school photo class, etc.). I have also seen people call themselves professional because they have very expensive equipment, even though they don't know how to use it, and their pictures are no better than if they had been taken with one of those film-box cameras.

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Aug 16, 2019 14:02:53   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
flashgordonbrown wrote:
Yeah, I found that statement a bit fishy myself- for Pollock, a can of housepaint and a wooden floor constituted a 'fine art' masterpiece! I never understood the attraction! Goes to show how unsophisticated I am!


Pollock was a process artist who's art depended on materials applied by non-traditional media application objects in a marginally controlled manner so that the result is largely created by the process of application.

I cannot think of a worse choice of artist to support the OP's position.

Maybe the OP's post is just satire poorly executed?

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Aug 16, 2019 14:30:26   #
cambriaman Loc: Central CA Coast
 
This thread sure fulfilled its title!

Reply
 
 
Aug 16, 2019 15:16:47   #
catchlight.. Loc: Wisconsin USA- Halden Norway
 
The biggest problem for me is when an amateur or hobbyist take it upon themselves to soap box their personal shortcomings in words, to a professional audience, or worse yet, to other amateurs and Hobbyists.

Poorly written long ramblings of pure nonsense, with underlying motives, repetitively take up subjects that proclaim the insignificance of personal skill.

Professional is not something you proclaim with a bull horn, it is something earned by images produced that have merit and a monetary value, and that includes post processing.

Using your equipment with confidence, and providing something of value should be a main concern... Your wallet won't make you a professor, and your inability to own the latest equipment, will not devalue what you can be.

Reply
Aug 16, 2019 15:25:06   #
nadelewitz Loc: Ithaca NY
 
Wallen wrote:
A lot of Uglies (hehe) take sides on just about any topic. The worst happens when it is about professional gear and processing.
I might be mistaken but i believe we should define the terms precisely so everyone would be looking at the same apple.

A. A professional is someone who earns their living from their activity.
It does not always mean they are experts in their careers, just that they are earning out of it.
An attitude or way that directly improves the activity

B. An amateur does things for the love of doing it. They do not get paid and although it also means incompetent, many amateurs are far better and knowledgeable than some professionals.

C. Hobbyist are those who endure serious leisure pursuit having no significant professional counterpart and being too poorly remunerated to constitute a livelihood. Hobbies are usually, but not always, practiced primarily for interest and enjoyment, rather than financial reward.


Well if we look at the above meanings, then:
1. There is no such thing as a hobby photographer as photography is a career choice.
2. There is no limit to what can be called a professional camera. Professional is the person and whatever that person is using is a professional tool. Is there an entry level hammer? or an entry level phone?
3. If we look at boxers, we can also see that being a professional does not always mean you get better the longer you are into it.
4. If someone get paid, he is no longer an amateur but either good or bad professional
5. Professional only means there is money involved. An amateur racer, basketball player and so on, do not get a power up just because he signs a contract.
6. Professional only means there is money involved. The more he can rely on it as a primary means of living then the more professional he gets.
7. A Celphone is a professional camera when used by Pollock.
8. A Nikon F is an amature camera
9. The Canon 7D is expensive
10. Just like fish and meat, some like it raw, some like it scooc
11. Neutral grey will join the nearest software.
12. If you are reading this, perhaps you now understand the absurdity of some of the things being discussed.

We are all in the same boat, let us learn together instead of butting heads and rowing our own way...

Hedgehogs in all their prickly glory can sit side by side together in the same den because they are family.
A lot of Uglies (hehe) take sides on just about an... (show quote)


What a waste of time, yours and ours. My only comment is on deduction #1....If you eat, you are an eater. If you drive, you are a driver. If you take photographs, you ARE a photographer, regardless of skill level, paid/unpaid, any other definition.

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Aug 16, 2019 16:35:12   #
srt101fan
 
Prostitutes are professional lovers; all others are amateurs.....

Reply
Aug 16, 2019 16:50:37   #
Doyle Thomas Loc: Vancouver Washington ~ USA
 
BebuLamar wrote:
There are many people who don't agree with the definitions you post.


but they are accurate

Reply
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