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Jul 9, 2019 11:31:57   #
RRS Loc: Not sure
 
dennis2146 wrote:
It means Nikon gear is still the very best but not enough people know it due to Canon having better advertising.

Dennis


Good morning Dennis, this is not directed at you so much, but all of this talk is kind of funny to me. So much talk about X,Y & Z cameras, all I care about is the finished product and be darned if I'm going to spend half a day with a loupe trying to figure what brand was used to take a picture. I've used and owned almost every brand out there since I first started out with Barnie Rubble back in 1954. With each new camera there was something new to learn, each new camera was going to make me a better photographer. Well I soon learned that it's not the camera but what you learn to do with the tools that you have. True better gear does help and yes Canon does a great job of advertising but once you learn (master) the ins and outs of different brands they all do a splendid job. Boils down to preferences. Education in photography goes a long way too, formal and on the job. When I made the switch to digital I had two camera systems set up, Nikon for sports and wildlife and Hasselblad's for my serious work. I made my decision on a new system based on the availability of the different focal length lenses. I will say that there hasn't been a camera that I haven't enjoyed using. The best were not X Y or Z but 4X5's.

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Jul 9, 2019 12:26:51   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
RRS wrote:
Good morning Dennis, this is not directed at you so much, but all of this talk is kind of funny to me. So much talk about X,Y & Z cameras, all I care about is the finished product and be darned if I'm going to spend half a day with a loupe trying to figure what brand was used to take a picture. I've used and owned almost every brand out there since I first started out with Barnie Rubble back in 1954. With each new camera there was something new to learn, each new camera was going to make me a better photographer. Well I soon learned that it's not the camera but what you learn to do with the tools that you have. True better gear does help and yes Canon does a great job of advertising but once you learn (master) the ins and outs of different brands they all do a splendid job. Boils down to preferences. Education in photography goes a long way too, formal and on the job. When I made the switch to digital I had two camera systems set up, Nikon for sports and wildlife and Hasselblad's for my serious work. I made my decision on a new system based on the availability of the different focal length lenses. I will say that there hasn't been a camera that I haven't enjoyed using. The best were not X Y or Z but 4X5's.
Good morning Dennis, this is not directed at you s... (show quote)



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Jul 9, 2019 13:52:30   #
nadelewitz Loc: Ithaca NY
 
Bill_de wrote:
Canon gear, being so popular, must be for the common folk.
Discriminating photographers shoot with Nikon.
Wannabes ... well, what can you say?





---
Canon gear, being so popular, must be for the comm... (show quote)


Those who don't mind using a confusing-as-hell lens/body compatibility system and confusing-as-hell lens designation system use Nikon.

We Canon 'wannabees" are really highly satisfied with what we use. And if you say that Nikon is overall "better" than Canon, you are dreaming.

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Jul 9, 2019 14:30:17   #
Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.
 
nadelewitz wrote:
Those who don't mind using a confusing-as-hell lens/body compatibility system and confusing-as-hell lens designation system use Nikon.

We Canon 'wannabees" are really highly satisfied with what we use. And if you say that Nikon is overall "better" than Canon, you are dreaming.

Right
I don't usually get into these "mine's bigger than yours" discussions but jeez, at least know what your talking about.

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Jul 9, 2019 14:57:54   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
nadelewitz wrote:
Those who don't mind using a confusing-as-hell lens/body compatibility system and confusing-as-hell lens designation system use Nikon.

We Canon 'wannabees" are really highly satisfied with what we use. And if you say that Nikon is overall "better" than Canon, you are dreaming.


I used both brands for decades. They are both great camera/lens lines. They ARE different, each slightly better-suited to a different group of tasks. I liked Nikons for dynamic range and Canons for skin tones. Now I use Panasonic Lumix cameras for their balance of filmmaking and stills capabilities. And I don't miss Canikon. But when/if I need one again, I'll rent or buy it.

In the end, our knowledge, experience, training, skills, personal vision, and points of view are far more important to photographic outcomes than the gear we use. We need gear sufficient to support that set of tools, but only other photographers care what each of us uses when they look at our work. John Q. Public non-photographers just appreciate good photos, regardless of what made them.

Mac or PC? Not the point. Ford vs Chevy? No point there, either. What we *do* with them matters more than the brands we use. Think about that the next time you see someone wearing a logo jersey or a fashion accessory with some designer's name on it.

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Jul 9, 2019 15:46:33   #
RRS Loc: Not sure
 
burkphoto wrote:
I used both brands for decades. They are both great camera/lens lines. They ARE different, each slightly better-suited to a different group of tasks. I liked Nikons for dynamic range and Canons for skin tones. Now I use Panasonic Lumix cameras for their balance of filmmaking and stills capabilities. And I don't miss Canikon. But when/if I need one again, I'll rent or buy it.

In the end, our knowledge, experience, training, skills, personal vision, and points of view are far more important to photographic outcomes than the gear we use. We need gear sufficient to support that set of tools, but only other photographers care what each of us uses when they look at our work. John Q. Public non-photographers just appreciate good photos, regardless of what made them.

Mac or PC? Not the point. Ford vs Chevy? No point there, either. What we *do* with them matters more than the brands we use. Think about that the next time you see someone wearing a logo jersey or a fashion accessory with some designer's name on it.
I used both brands for decades. They are both grea... (show quote)


Well said from someone that made their living in the photographic world.

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Jul 9, 2019 16:00:42   #
nadelewitz Loc: Ithaca NY
 
Rich1939 wrote:
Right
I don't usually get into these "mine's bigger than yours" discussions but jeez, at least know what your talking about.


My statement about Nikon's confusing len/body systems compatibility is not MY invention. There have been opinions published by pros (who ARE Nikon users) to that effect, and saying that Nikon erred years ago by attempting to continue compatibility of old lenses with new cameras, rather than creating a new lens system with their autofocus cameras.

Canon DID make the change with the first EOS AF cameras in 1987. It upset people with FD lens and bodies collections, but there is no question about using ANY Canon EF lens made from 1987 to today on ANY EOS autofocus body, film and digital included.

That is simplicity.

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Jul 9, 2019 16:26:17   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
RRS wrote:
Well said from someone that made their living in the photographic world.


Thanks. [slightly off-topic commentary:]

Over the years I used brands:

Argus
Kodak
Polaroid
Canon
Nikon
Yashica
Minolta
Pentax
Bronica
Mamiya
Camerz (long roll school portrait film cameras)
Calumet
Panasonic Lumix

Each had a balance sheet of positive and negative attributes associated with it...

My lifetime favorites I've used are the Nikon F3 and Lumix GH4. Both are built like tanks, ergonomically superior, and quite fun to use.

Kudos go to Canon for the EOS 20D. The 20D was an excellent dSLR that could be used as a school portrait camera — cheap, repairable, sold with GREAT tethering software, but disposable after 50,000 to 70,000 exposures because Canon were evolving bodies so fast, new 50Ds were preferable to repairs. It generated JPEGs that could be tweaked to almost match Kodak Portra 160 NC film. Our company bought hundreds of them. I trained hundreds of folks to use them.

My most hated cameras were the Nikon D100 and Camerz Classic.

The D100 electronics were way too sluggish for portraits. End of discussion — bad expressions don't sell.

The Classic was a clunky, expensive twin lens film camera that could use 35, 46, or 70mm unperforated 100' long roll films in a wide variety of formats. Its long roll film magazines always leaked light, and if the parallax bar popped out of alignment unexpectedly, or you used the wrong one for the film size, it caused a customer relations nightmare (hundreds of bad portraits). It was built like a WWII tank, though! Shutters could last nearly forever, and were field swappable!

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Jul 9, 2019 17:47:03   #
Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.
 
nadelewitz wrote:
My statement about Nikon's confusing len/body systems compatibility is not MY invention. There have been opinions published by pros (who ARE Nikon users) to that effect, and saying that Nikon erred years ago by attempting to continue compatibility of old lenses with new cameras, rather than creating a new lens system with their autofocus cameras.

Canon DID make the change with the first EOS AF cameras in 1987. It upset people with FD lens and bodies collections, but there is no question about using ANY Canon EF lens made from 1987 to today on ANY EOS autofocus body, film and digital included.

That is simplicity.
My statement about Nikon's confusing len/body syst... (show quote)


Some "pros" write an opinion piece and of course it;s the last word. Meanwhile the rest of the Nikon world, amateurs and pros alike, blithely continue on with zero confusion or trouble because the same basic mount has been in use since its introduction in 1959. Yes as the cameras were improved changes were made but the basic mount remained the same. Previous Nikon owners were not phased out by a product change that caused them to purchase new lenses for instance. For the most part Nikon didn't ATTEMPT to maintain comparability, the DID maintain it.

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Jul 9, 2019 17:57:26   #
nadelewitz Loc: Ithaca NY
 
Rich1939 wrote:
Some "pros" write an opinion piece and of course it;s the last word. Meanwhile the rest of the Nikon world, amateurs and pros alike, blithely continue on with zero confusion or trouble because the same basic mount has been in use since its introduction in 1959. Yes as the cameras were improved changes were made but the basic mount remained the same. Previous Nikon owners were not phased out by a product change that caused them to purchase new lenses for instance. For the most part Nikon didn't ATTEMPT to maintain comparability, the DID maintain it.
Some "pros" write an opinion piece and o... (show quote)


Yes, I absolutely concur....the Nikon F mount is the same "basic" mount as ever. The problem has been keeping that same basic mount while asking bodies and lenses to do a lot more, like autofocus, exposure automation, etc., while maintaining as much backwards-compatibility as possible.

I have nothing against Nikon users and their choice of camera. I was not a Nikon film camera user, so I didn't have Nikon's compatibilities to deal with (or not).
I was a Canon user before digital, and the EOS lens-mount change didn't really bother me.

What does get me going on this subject is the abundance of Nikon users who act superior, even going as far as telling people to dump Canon ...just because they feel Nikon is "better".

That's all I have to say on this.

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Jul 9, 2019 18:01:37   #
Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.
 
nadelewitz wrote:
Yes, I absolutely concur....the Nikon F mount is the same "basic" mount as ever. The problem has been keeping that same basic mount while asking bodies and lenses to do a lot more, like autofocus, exposure automation, etc., while maintaining as much backwards-compatibility as possible.


One more reply and then I'm finished with this.

"The problem has been........................"
They got 'er done

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Jul 9, 2019 18:13:32   #
rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania
 
Another my dog is bigger than your dog conversation. Well, my dogs probably aren't bigger than yours but they are super friendly and fun and cute. Bottom line, who cares what brand of camera one uses! It doesn't prove a darn thing and it really doesn't matter. Like Steve Wozniak said, if you want easy, get a Mac, if you want lots of functionality, get a PC. What make of camera you have is far, far less relevant than ones ability to use it.

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Jul 9, 2019 18:20:42   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
nadelewitz wrote:
Those who don't mind using a confusing-as-hell lens/body compatibility system and confusing-as-hell lens designation system use Nikon.

We Canon 'wannabees" are really highly satisfied with what we use. And if you say that Nikon is overall "better" than Canon, you are dreaming.


I knew one of these wouldn't be enough for some folks, so I used five.

Go figure!

---

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Jul 9, 2019 20:26:57   #
hj Loc: Florida
 
Bill_de wrote:
Canon gear, being so popular, must be for the common folk.
Discriminating photographers shoot with Nikon.
Wannabes ... well, what can you say?


---
Canon gear, being so popular, must be for the comm... (show quote)


Yeah, that's why all the pro photographers at the game sidelines are shooting the white lens.

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Jul 9, 2019 21:07:08   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
RRS wrote:
Good morning Dennis, this is not directed at you so much, but all of this talk is kind of funny to me. So much talk about X,Y & Z cameras, all I care about is the finished product and be darned if I'm going to spend half a day with a loupe trying to figure what brand was used to take a picture. I've used and owned almost every brand out there since I first started out with Barnie Rubble back in 1954. With each new camera there was something new to learn, each new camera was going to make me a better photographer. Well I soon learned that it's not the camera but what you learn to do with the tools that you have. True better gear does help and yes Canon does a great job of advertising but once you learn (master) the ins and outs of different brands they all do a splendid job. Boils down to preferences. Education in photography goes a long way too, formal and on the job. When I made the switch to digital I had two camera systems set up, Nikon for sports and wildlife and Hasselblad's for my serious work. I made my decision on a new system based on the availability of the different focal length lenses. I will say that there hasn't been a camera that I haven't enjoyed using. The best were not X Y or Z but 4X5's.
Good morning Dennis, this is not directed at you s... (show quote)


Thank you for not directing your post at me although that is exactly what you did. No problem here though. My comment was meant to be a good natured rib at Canon owners though I have owned several Canons, Rolleiflex TLR, Mamiya TLR, Hasselblad(s), several Leicas (both rangefinder and SLR), three 4X5’s, and numerous Nikons and some miscellaneous not so well known cameras. Like you I enjoyed each camera and have never had a problem with any camera. All were splendid performers when I did my part.

A pleasure hearing from you.

Dennis

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