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Travel to Cuba
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Jul 8, 2019 08:02:47   #
dashone
 
Please do post the itinerary for your Cuban trip, along with ballpark-cost figures.
Thanks!

Reply
Jul 8, 2019 08:04:14   #
ronichas Loc: Long Island
 
dashone wrote:
Please do post the itinerary for your Cuban trip, along with ballpark-cost figures.
Thanks!


I would rather send it privately for whoever might be interested.
Thanks

Reply
Jul 8, 2019 08:15:53   #
dashone
 
Gotcha; PM on the way, via your website.

Reply
 
 
Jul 8, 2019 08:17:31   #
CWGordon
 
This always seems to breakdown to political beliefs. Right-wing Trumpers seem to always know what is right and wrong. Usually, I disagree. Opening Cuba was a hot-potato issue when it happened. I was unsure what to think. Eventually, I determined that Japan and Germany and Italy, even Great Britain had done things I found unconscionable. Yet, we have normalized our relations with them. I bet those against dealing in and with Cuba are just fine with how Donald has toadied up to Putin. If they could only see the hypocrisy in this.
Cuba, like it or not, is a country that needs to learn about how freedom and Democracy work in most countries of the world (ours being given and taken away under the current regime). They need to talk to our citizens and need to know more about the traditional values we espouse. As they learn about our values and do more trade w/us, the Government will lose some grip and hold on the people. This is why they call it cultural exchange. This pulls their country more into our orbit! Of course, maybe you guys prefer to hear about the “love letters” our leader and N Koreas’ leader have been “supposedly” sending back and forth. Your leader says it’s a good thing! Of course, that is ok, but Cuba is not. Which country is the most horrible in regards to human rights? How about what this country is doing to immigrant children. Donald says we kill people ourselves. So, give it a break. This guy is helping build relations; a positive thing in todays’ world.
I could go into a bunch of other things you guys should worry about more than this. Our totally corrupt and developing Oligarchy. The obvious crimes we excuse daily for our leaders. The voter suppression issues, the election interference by Russia, the lies we are told about the Mueller report, the investigation into the investigation, the endless foreign policy decisions hurting us around the globe, the more than 10,000 lies we have heard and been told in the last couple years, the discrimination against people whose sexual orientation may not be the same as ours...heck, I could go on for hours about how the attacks on the press, free speech, etc. are affecting our democratic and free way of life, but no one like you bothers to be open-minded or to listen. Travel outside the country, talk to others who differ from you, try to listen, not just hear. I, like many others, chose to be nice and polite and not argue when ignorant things were being said the last few years. I, for one, am tired of being so accepting of ignorant and bigoted comments. It is time nice people “resisted” a bit and let others know we have strong feelings, too.
I am sure that it is the same people who write rude and insulting remarks to innocent questions by people seeking knowledge and assistance that now ignorantly condemn a guy who is trying to help people understand other people. He sought no political opinions, but you felt free to attack w/o understanding what he might be trying to accomplish. My Father was in WWll and saw many dead and dying people, he was there for the liberation of concentration camps. He taught me about freedom and the many who have fought and died for it, or who came back with limbs missing or psychological problems. You want to support freedom and the military write your Congressmen about the deplorable state of the VA hospitals. Blindly saying you support the military w/o knowing what the military is all about is, once again, hypocrisy. It is not about putting tanks in the parade, it is about the vital and dangerous work they do to protect freedom. Countries like Russia and N Korea parade their military to intimidate their own and other people. The brave men and women who fight and represent our country do not need to show off, they should be thanked for their sacrifices. Give them better equipment, better hospitals and care when they need it.
I have in the past opposed the ridiculing and mean-spirited comments some of you make. I have also opposed this forum being made into a political forum. That is not needed. A little compassion for those who ask for your help is a small thing. Even if you think a question is stupid, does it make you bigger to make them feel smaller? It is you who are the smaller person. I will wager that many mothers have told you if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing! Some of you should have listened a bit better. I know I will receive negative comments from some of you regarding this message. That’s ok. I never expected you would understand my point, anyway. I will make a deal w/you, however. You keep your politics to your selves and I will, too.
Oh, and by the way, I would be interested in traveling to Cuba. I would appreciate learning more about the proposed trip. Price is important, as always, but even more, the itinerary.
I thank those who may disagree w/me for, at least, reading my writing.

Reply
Jul 8, 2019 08:23:45   #
d2b2 Loc: Catonsville, Maryland, USA
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Support of a repressive murdering socialist regime is ethically and morally wrong. Then even worse one that exports that repression and violence to neighboring countries is worse. Every dollar spent there kills another child.
You should be ashamed to even suggest going to a violent socialist country and providing financial support and legitimacy for it.


Why is there no uproar about Russsia or China, in the same way? Or the Pilippines or the USA...? I am not saying you are incorrect - just selective. Yes, the USA, with our own selective support of Saudi Arabia, as a prime example.

Reply
Jul 8, 2019 08:27:27   #
ronichas Loc: Long Island
 
d2b2 wrote:
Why is there no uproar about Russsia or China, in the same way? Or the Pilippines or the USA...? I am not saying you are incorrect - just selective.


Or North Korea, who tortured and killed a young American student! or the Saudi's who murdered and dismembered a journalist.

You don't see or hear about these things in Cuba. It was horrible in the past but has gotten better in recent years.

Reply
Jul 8, 2019 08:29:37   #
d2b2 Loc: Catonsville, Maryland, USA
 
ronichas wrote:
You are wrong in what you say. I am not ashamed, as I have been there and the people we stay with and the guys who work full time for the travel agents, are well cared for. It is supporting them, NOT the government.

Your suggestion that dollars spent there kills another child is just wrong and not correct.
You should be ashamed of your views if you have never been there.



Reply
 
 
Jul 8, 2019 08:34:05   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
BobHartung wrote:
Can't support the cuban secret police repressing the Venezuelans.


totally agree and all the while the Cuban government and leadership has made Billions off the Cubans sweat and labor including tourists.

Reply
Jul 8, 2019 08:35:02   #
berchman Loc: South Central PA
 
CWGordon wrote:
I bet those against dealing in and with Cuba are just fine with how Donald has toadied up to Putin. Of course, maybe you guys prefer to hear about the “love letters” our leader and N Koreas’ leader have been “supposedly” sending back and forth. Your leader says it’s a good thing! Of course, that is ok, but Cuba is not. Which country is the most horrible in regards to human rights? How about what this country is doing to immigrant children. Donald says we kill people ourselves. So, give it a break. This guy is helping build relations; a positive thing in todays’ world.
I could go into a bunch of other things you guys should worry about more than this. Our totally corrupt and developing Oligarchy. The obvious crimes we excuse daily for our leaders. The voter suppression issues, the election interference by Russia, the lies we are told about the Mueller report, the investigation into the investigation, the endless foreign policy decisions hurting us around the globe, the more than 10,000 lies we have heard and been told in the last couple years, the discrimination against people whose sexual orientation may not be the same as ours...heck, I could go on for hours about how the attacks on the press, free speech, etc. are affecting our democratic and free way of life, but no one like you bothers to be open-minded or to listen.
I bet those against dealing in and with Cuba are j... (show quote)


Your enumeration of outrages could be substantially added to. Here is just one: Mr. T is supporting mining in Bristol Bay the largest source of wild salmon in the world. https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2019/06/bristol-bay-salmon-pebble-mine-scott-pruitt-trump-mining/

Reply
Jul 8, 2019 08:36:11   #
Ksocha Loc: Bethesda, MD
 
ronichas wrote:
You are wrong, and I am not about to argue with you on your opinions. I am not delusional, I am not rationalizing, You are just wrong!!

Reply
Jul 8, 2019 08:42:39   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
CWGordon wrote:
This always seems to breakdown to political beliefs. Right-wing Trumpers seem to always know what is right and wrong. Usually, I disagree. Opening Cuba was a hot-potato issue when it happened. I was unsure what to think. Eventually, I determined that Japan and Germany and Italy, even Great Britain had done things I found unconscionable. Yet, we have normalized our relations with them. I bet those against dealing in and with Cuba are just fine with how Donald has toadied up to Putin. If they could only see the hypocrisy in this.
Cuba, like it or not, is a country that needs to learn about how freedom and Democracy work in most countries of the world (ours being given and taken away under the current regime). They need to talk to our citizens and need to know more about the traditional values we espouse. As they learn about our values and do more trade w/us, the Government will lose some grip and hold on the people. This is why they call it cultural exchange. This pulls their country more into our orbit! Of course, maybe you guys prefer to hear about the “love letters” our leader and N Koreas’ leader have been “supposedly” sending back and forth. Your leader says it’s a good thing! Of course, that is ok, but Cuba is not. Which country is the most horrible in regards to human rights? How about what this country is doing to immigrant children. Donald says we kill people ourselves. So, give it a break. This guy is helping build relations; a positive thing in todays’ world.
I could go into a bunch of other things you guys should worry about more than this. Our totally corrupt and developing Oligarchy. The obvious crimes we excuse daily for our leaders. The voter suppression issues, the election interference by Russia, the lies we are told about the Mueller report, the investigation into the investigation, the endless foreign policy decisions hurting us around the globe, the more than 10,000 lies we have heard and been told in the last couple years, the discrimination against people whose sexual orientation may not be the same as ours...heck, I could go on for hours about how the attacks on the press, free speech, etc. are affecting our democratic and free way of life, but no one like you bothers to be open-minded or to listen. Travel outside the country, talk to others who differ from you, try to listen, not just hear. I, like many others, chose to be nice and polite and not argue when ignorant things were being said the last few years. I, for one, am tired of being so accepting of ignorant and bigoted comments. It is time nice people “resisted” a bit and let others know we have strong feelings, too.
I am sure that it is the same people who write rude and insulting remarks to innocent questions by people seeking knowledge and assistance that now ignorantly condemn a guy who is trying to help people understand other people. He sought no political opinions, but you felt free to attack w/o understanding what he might be trying to accomplish. My Father was in WWll and saw many dead and dying people, he was there for the liberation of concentration camps. He taught me about freedom and the many who have fought and died for it, or who came back with limbs missing or psychological problems. You want to support freedom and the military write your Congressmen about the deplorable state of the VA hospitals. Blindly saying you support the military w/o knowing what the military is all about is, once again, hypocrisy. It is not about putting tanks in the parade, it is about the vital and dangerous work they do to protect freedom. Countries like Russia and N Korea parade their military to intimidate their own and other people. The brave men and women who fight and represent our country do not need to show off, they should be thanked for their sacrifices. Give them better equipment, better hospitals and care when they need it.
I have in the past opposed the ridiculing and mean-spirited comments some of you make. I have also opposed this forum being made into a political forum. That is not needed. A little compassion for those who ask for your help is a small thing. Even if you think a question is stupid, does it make you bigger to make them feel smaller? It is you who are the smaller person. I will wager that many mothers have told you if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing! Some of you should have listened a bit better. I know I will receive negative comments from some of you regarding this message. That’s ok. I never expected you would understand my point, anyway. I will make a deal w/you, however. You keep your politics to your selves and I will, too.
Oh, and by the way, I would be interested in traveling to Cuba. I would appreciate learning more about the proposed trip. Price is important, as always, but even more, the itinerary.
I thank those who may disagree w/me for, at least, reading my writing.
This always seems to breakdown to political belief... (show quote)


Nice Political Rant...

Reply
 
 
Jul 8, 2019 08:42:54   #
Pdhanseen
 
LWW wrote:
When all one needs is an excuse, any will do?


I'd love to go please provide details

Reply
Jul 8, 2019 08:43:44   #
Ksocha Loc: Bethesda, MD
 
We were there a number of years ago. The random people we met were very pleasant and eager to talk to Americans. One of our group fell gravely ill. He rejoined us a week later and said he was very well cared for.

The people seemed to have little in the way of material things, but I saw no misery or homeless as we all can see on the streets of Los Angeles, San Francisco etc. certainly no tent cities or the like. We had zero restrictions as to movement. Not all was ideal, as an example, toilet seats were not usual even in the best hotel we could find in Havana. I’d like to learn more about your trip.

Reply
Jul 8, 2019 08:49:43   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
d2b2 wrote:
Why is there no uproar about Russsia or China, in the same way? Or the Pilippines or the USA...? I am not saying you are incorrect - just selective. Yes, the USA, with our own selective support of Saudi Arabia, as a prime example.


Some but all are not hypocrites….I won't travel to Russia, China, Cuba, Venezuela, NOK, Iran or any other Communist country primarily because they are what they are, mostly repressive, butchering and murderous regimes. I did travel to Vietnam in March and saw what Capitalism, even pseudo Capitalism can do, not to mention they despise the Chinese....and the fact I served there 50 years ago.

Reply
Jul 8, 2019 08:51:07   #
CWGordon
 
Thank you. Your objective and very reasonable comments are truly appreciated.

Reply
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