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File Format Decision
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Jun 23, 2019 00:16:24   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
quixdraw wrote:
Not in a DF, D750, D7200 unless there is a secret handshake. Whatever works for you.


I just looked at pages 115-118 of the D750 Operator's Manual. It appears that TIFF is not an option for the D750. I didn't look at the DF or the D7200, but would assume that it is the same for them, as well. This is an interesting development in the discussion, and I'll agree that it affects the value and usefulness of what I m trying to accomplish. Thank you for flagging this information. I do not have experience with those cameras, but presumed that they would be similar to the precedent from the D300.

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Jun 23, 2019 00:23:42   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
TriX wrote:
I think you’ll have to do some actual tests to determine the numbers, but as an example (and this is dependent on both the raw file and the PP application), I just took a 32MB raw CR2 file, and using DPP (Canon Digital Photo Professional), I exported it to Photoshop as a TIFF, which was 65MB (a 2x increase in size), and I have seen 160 MB TIFFs, hence the reason for my comment.


This is good information. I have seen files "bloat" like this on occasion when exported as TIFFs after starting life as a different file type, but not when they originate as TIFF files. I have also seen Fine/Large JPEGs grow noticeably when they are edited then resaved using Fine/Large settings. I will have to do some additional investigation over the next couple of days.

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Jun 23, 2019 00:36:54   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
quixdraw wrote:
Not in a DF, D750, D7200 unless there is a secret handshake. Whatever works for you.


The d7200 does not offer a Tiff option. The D500, D850, D4s, and Z6 all have it. It's been a long time, but I remember using Tiff for printing. I don't remember why.

--

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Jun 23, 2019 07:13:52   #
hippi Loc: Sedalia MO
 
just checked my DF and you can save as tiff rgb

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Jun 23, 2019 07:29:29   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
larryepage wrote:
There have been a number of discussions on this site discussing the advantages of capturing images as raw files versus JPEG. I've participated in some of them, and a few have become pretty unpleasant or even militant in nature. While I've been focusing on other areas than this forum, I've been reviewing my position on that topic (I added raw/NEF as one of my file formats a year and a half or so ago) and have decided that my choice at that time was suboptimal. The result will be another change in the way I record and save images.

This is a big change, of course, but careful evaluation indicates that it will be better than what I'm doing now in all respects, with only one minor disadvantage. When my D500 is returned from Nikon service in a week or so (it's waiting on parts from Japan right now) and has to be set up again, it will be the first of my cameras which will be exclusively saving images as TIFF files. If there are no snags encountered, the D810 and D850 will follow pretty quickly.

Here's a quick summary of the top reasons for this significant change:

1. File depth will be 16 bits rather than 14.

2. Both uncompressed and lossless compressed formats are available.

3. When using multiple cameras or collaborating with others, all files will be of identical format, other than resolution, which is handled transparently.

4. Anyone will be able to view the files, since TIFF is a universally adopted and available format.

5. All camera setup options (pre-processing) will be immediately visible to whoever views the files.

6. Any editor can be used for post processing. No issue with waiting for new raw formats to be recognized. Movement from one editor/processor to another will be completely transparent.

7. All post processing actions will be incorporated directly into the file. (Yes...a copy will be made for editing and the original retained.)

8. No file conversion will be required for presentation to the printer. File conversion from raw has produced some very problematic results in specific circumstances in the past.

The only disadvantage I have discovered to this point is that none of my camera bodies support saving a second file type along with TIFF files. It is a committed choice. It is possible to save backups to a second memory card in those bodies that support dual cards. But if JPEGs should be needed for some reason, they will have to be created and saved later. Not a big deal, since almost every editor has a "Save As" function.

Individual files will be slightly larger than raw files, but in today's world of low memory prices, that's a pretty weak reason for not choosing this option.

I'll be tracking how this goes. I'm also a little uncertain about whether to make the change on the D300 and D300s. Might not be worth it. I'll have to do a little more experimenting on that part of the puzzle, and might just have one or both of them set up for the times that is known that JPEGs are needed.
There have been a number of discussions on this si... (show quote)


To each his own. jpeg + for me. I pride myself in getting the exposure correct the first time and using jpeg I find I can do all I need to in post to get award winning 20X30 prints. Again, to each his own. What ever works, use.

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Jun 23, 2019 08:22:41   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
You are the first person I know that has decided to shoot TIFF files instead of RAW data. If I decide to shoot with JPEG files then I save the files as TIFF but that is me.
RAW will offer the flexibility that TIFF is not capable of. If you do not want issues when yo convert RAW data to JPEG simply use the proprietary software of the camera manufacturer, in your case Nikon Capture NX-D. There will not be conflicts when you print assuming you have a calibrated monitor.

In the Miami area I do not know of a professional lab that prints TIFF files, only JPEG in the sRGB color space.

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Jun 23, 2019 08:29:54   #
Bison Bud
 
I'd shoot RAW, then save in TIFF. If storage memory is not an issue, I'd archive both. Good luck and good shooting to all.

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Jun 23, 2019 08:43:02   #
sodapop Loc: Bel Air, MD
 
I store all my photos in raw then export as/when needed in either small JPG Large JPG or TIFF, whatever the requirement for that particular photo or photo set is.

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Jun 23, 2019 09:15:38   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
I shoot saving RAW + JPEG FINE.
(I don't use TIFF.)

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Jun 23, 2019 09:22:20   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
larryepage wrote:
There have been a number of discussions on this site discussing the advantages of capturing images as raw files versus JPEG. I've participated in some of them, and a few have become pretty unpleasant or even militant in nature. While I've been focusing on other areas than this forum, I've been reviewing my position on that topic (I added raw/NEF as one of my file formats a year and a half or so ago) and have decided that my choice at that time was suboptimal. The result will be another change in the way I record and save images.

This is a big change, of course, but careful evaluation indicates that it will be better than what I'm doing now in all respects, with only one minor disadvantage. When my D500 is returned from Nikon service in a week or so (it's waiting on parts from Japan right now) and has to be set up again, it will be the first of my cameras which will be exclusively saving images as TIFF files. If there are no snags encountered, the D810 and D850 will follow pretty quickly.

Here's a quick summary of the top reasons for this significant change:

1. File depth will be 16 bits rather than 14.

2. Both uncompressed and lossless compressed formats are available.

3. When using multiple cameras or collaborating with others, all files will be of identical format, other than resolution, which is handled transparently.

4. Anyone will be able to view the files, since TIFF is a universally adopted and available format.

5. All camera setup options (pre-processing) will be immediately visible to whoever views the files.

6. Any editor can be used for post processing. No issue with waiting for new raw formats to be recognized. Movement from one editor/processor to another will be completely transparent.

7. All post processing actions will be incorporated directly into the file. (Yes...a copy will be made for editing and the original retained.)

8. No file conversion will be required for presentation to the printer. File conversion from raw has produced some very problematic results in specific circumstances in the past.

The only disadvantage I have discovered to this point is that none of my camera bodies support saving a second file type along with TIFF files. It is a committed choice. It is possible to save backups to a second memory card in those bodies that support dual cards. But if JPEGs should be needed for some reason, they will have to be created and saved later. Not a big deal, since almost every editor has a "Save As" function.

Individual files will be slightly larger than raw files, but in today's world of low memory prices, that's a pretty weak reason for not choosing this option.

I'll be tracking how this goes. I'm also a little uncertain about whether to make the change on the D300 and D300s. Might not be worth it. I'll have to do a little more experimenting on that part of the puzzle, and might just have one or both of them set up for the times that is known that JPEGs are needed.
There have been a number of discussions on this si... (show quote)


Your analysis seems to validate all/most of the reasons for shooting JPEG - why complicate your life by not ??
.

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Jun 23, 2019 09:24:59   #
BebuLamar
 
larryepage wrote:
I just looked at pages 115-118 of the D750 Operator's Manual. It appears that TIFF is not an option for the D750. I didn't look at the DF or the D7200, but would assume that it is the same for them, as well. This is an interesting development in the discussion, and I'll agree that it affects the value and usefulness of what I m trying to accomplish. Thank you for flagging this information. I do not have experience with those cameras, but presumed that they would be similar to the precedent from the D300.
I just looked at pages 115-118 of the D750 Operato... (show quote)


I have the Df and there is no option for saving as TIFF. The TIFF would be 3 times larger than the RAW.

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Jun 23, 2019 09:42:34   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I have the Df and there is no option for saving as TIFF. The TIFF would be 3 times larger than the RAW.


hippi wrote:
just checked my DF and you can save as tiff rgb


Seems like there are different versions of the DF?

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Jun 23, 2019 10:02:46   #
Dikdik Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
 
f8lee wrote:
A raw file is not an image at all. It is the data stream from the imaging chip.


This and a couple of the comments above provide an excellent explanation of RAW files. Thanks.

I almost never do any post-processing and don't often shoot in RAW (I'm not a professional photographer), but, the description of the formats is interesting Again thanks.

Dik

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Jun 23, 2019 10:08:07   #
BebuLamar
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
Seems like there are different versions of the DF?


My bad! Checked my Df again and it does have TIFF but only 8 bit. Still it's bigger than the 14 bit uncompressed RAW.

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Jun 23, 2019 10:08:49   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
"...different versions of the DF?" or more likely different firmware versions...
I've never ceased to be amazed at how many advanced camera owners are naive about keeping their camera up to date with firmware releases from the camera vendors...

Since the Nikon DF is a "retro" design dating back to yesteryear a.k.a. time long since gone perhaps some that purchase them are still "old school" and clueless about the brutal fact that digital cameras seriously need to be running the latest firmware versions... Some of these updates can (and do) generate HUGE changes...

For all who deploy a Nikon DF here is Nikon's Support link to the latest firmware release...
https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/products/28/Df.html

Check you firmware version, it should be C:Ver.1.03 released 2018/06/12
Also your distortion control version, it should be Ver.2.017 released 2018/03/01

Caveat: DO NOT attempt to update your firmware until AFTER you have read (and understand) how to accomplish this... If your battery is weak and fails during the update your camera may be rendered inoperable... Seriously! You can easily accomplish this task if you take the time to study how to do this...

If you trash you camera, Nikon Service can likely repair it for you...

btw, as for file formats? Virtually all the commercial shooters I assist shot in RAW... if TIFF had compelling attributes i.e. reasons to become a dominate format in the industry it would have done so long ago... The original post on this (in my humble estimation) had all the red flags of a troll... just saying...

btw, I actually know one very successful wedding shooter who only shoots in .jpeg. He uses Nikon gear and mentioned that Nikon's "Picture Control" affords him ample ability to fine tune his renderings in camera thus avoiding the time/expense of post processing... it works well for him and he's totally capable of dealing with post processing... again just saying...

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