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RAW and changes
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Jun 9, 2019 07:53:08   #
Larryshuman
 
Nikon, Steve Perry and E. J. Pieker (Naturescapes) has confirmed to me that if I use Nikon Transfer 2 it will keep and apply my set up for Picture control, white balance, Active D-lighting and other I set, It applies them to the raw file when its downloading. This only happens if you plug the camera into the computer and activate Nikon Transfer 2. The other plus is I don't remove the card from the camera and chance bending a pin

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Jun 9, 2019 08:41:21   #
Tomcat5133 Loc: Gladwyne PA
 
This brings up a stupid question. I shoot raw and jpg. Use raw shots once in a while. How do approach
anticipating finishing with raw adjustments the original shot. Now using LR more got my Adobe Suite
back for $29 month. I shoot mostly video so have been stills off of 10 bit video for my work.

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Jun 9, 2019 08:43:47   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
Applied for viewing purposes in DPP, yes, but the raw data is not altered.

Mike


Not only viewing. If you export the file to PS (by creating an intermediate TIFF file) or save as a JPEG, the settings are applied in my experience.

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Jun 9, 2019 08:49:51   #
BebuLamar
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
On Nikon cameras the only setting that will affect the raw file (other than focus or manual exposure) is Active D-Lighting. That may not be available on all Nikon bodies.


Yes it's true! Even when the lighting doesn't change, using the same aperture, shutter speed and ISO setting with the Active D Lighting on it give slightly less exposure on the shot.

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Jun 9, 2019 09:13:25   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
will47 wrote:
I shoot in RAW and only RAW. If I make adjustments in my camera will they have any effect on the photo?


Generally not. White balance setting will be retained. In the PSE Editor I can select the camera settings for the preset but usually don’t and my camera settings are as neutral as possible so that the image in the LCD looks similar to what the RAW image would look like on my PC. The image that you can view is just the JPEG thumbnail embedded in the RAW data and it’s affected by your camera settings. At least that’s how I understand it to be.

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Jun 9, 2019 09:21:05   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
Never....for the majority of those camera settings.

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Jun 9, 2019 09:28:21   #
peterg Loc: Santa Rosa, CA
 
fredpnm wrote:
You didn't state camera brand, but...with my Nikons I can make 'edits' (Nikon calls it Retouch) to the RAW image in camera, after the photo has been captured, and Nikon will save changes I make as a (new) JPG file. It will NOT overwrite the RAW file. These 'edits' have nothing to do with any scene modes you might have used in taking the photo (if your camera has those) or any style settings you might have used IF you were shooting JPG or RAW+JPG (such as Vivid, Landscape, Natural, etc.). As for Nikon the RAW files always remain untouched...
You didn't state camera brand, but...with my Nikon... (show quote)
I think the image portion of a Nikon NEF file will remain unaltered. However other parts will be.
Examples: Embedded JPEG/thumbnails and many EXIF values, which could change the preview JPEGs in your computer. Some of these EXIF values are Contrast, Saturation, Sharpness, Picture Control Version, Picture Control Name,Picture Control Base, Picture Control Adjust, Picture Control Quick Adjust, Clarity, Brightness, Hue, Filter Effect, Toning Effect, Toning Saturation

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Jun 9, 2019 09:40:40   #
Nikon1201
 
I make no editing adjustments in camera only in LR .

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Jun 9, 2019 09:51:49   #
bleirer
 
My understanding is that the raw file is just a data record of the state your camera was in at the time of exposure. How much light each pixel recorded, what the state and settings of the camera were. The software then is free to turn that data into a picture. Optical things like focus, aperture, and shutter speed can't be altered by the software, though some Canon cameras record depth information in the raw file that can be adjusted. DPP looks at your settings for wb, sharpness, saturation, etc. and applies them, but you are free to move the sliders however you want. Even ISO can be somewhat malleable, but that is getting into the weeds. Lightroom doesn't apply your camera settings, but you can set up presets once you get some settings you want repeated. If Lightroom has a profile for your camera you can scroll through the presets it offered.

I believe TIFF and DNG and PSD are still fully alterable. So if you took a tiff file to Photoshop and applies camera raw from the filter menu, it would be the same as doing it in DPP or Lightroom. Once it is a jpeg the changes are baked in. You can still adjust, but over a narrower range since the raw data is not part of the file anymore.

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Jun 9, 2019 12:33:59   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
bleirer wrote:
I believe TIFF and DNG and PSD are still fully alterable. So if you took a tiff file to Photoshop and applies camera raw from the filter menu, it would be the same as doing it in DPP or Lightroom. Once it is a jpeg the changes are baked in. You can still adjust, but over a narrower range since the raw data is not part of the file anymore.


The raw data is no longer part of a TIFF or PSD file just as it is no longer part of a JPEG. For DNG it's an open question -- a DNG may contain raw data or RGB image data.

TIFF, PSD and JPEG files are RGB image files (unlikely but possibly CMYK or Lab for the TIFF & PSD). Their structure as such is entirely different from a raw file and any editing will produce different results because of the structural differences. In an RGB image file each pixel contains information for three color channels (Red Green Blue). So we could write data for a TIFF/PSD or JPEG file pixel like this: R=83, G=127, B=26 (sRGB) which would identify a specific color. In a raw file each pixel records data for only one color and no color space is assigned. So we could write data for a raw file pixel like this: G=12443 which does not specify a specific color but only a value recorded by the sensor for the pixel under a green filter.

Joe

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Jun 9, 2019 12:57:27   #
bleirer
 
Ysarex wrote:
The raw data is no longer part of a TIFF or PSD file just as it is no longer part of a JPEG. For DNG it's an open question -- a DNG may contain raw data or RGB image data.

TIFF, PSD and JPEG files are RGB image files (unlikely but possibly CMYK or Lab for the TIFF & PSD). Their structure as such is entirely different from a raw file and any editing will produce different results because of the structural differences. In an RGB image file each pixel contains information for three color channels (Red Green Blue). So we could write data for a TIFF/PSD or JPEG file pixel like this: R=83, G=127, B=26 (sRGB) which would identify a specific color. In a raw file each pixel records data for only one color and no color space is assigned. So we could write data for a raw file pixel like this: G=12443 which does not specify a specific color but only a value recorded by the sensor for the pixel under a green filter.

Joe
The raw data is no longer part of a TIFF or PSD fi... (show quote)

I hear you. But try making the same adjustment in ACR vs. opening the same file saved as a tiff in Photoshop and using camera raw filter. I can't see a difference. You? Somewhere with some raw converter the file has to be converted to a colorspace, otherwise we'd only see numbers, not an image.

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Jun 9, 2019 13:34:30   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
TriX wrote:
Not only viewing. If you export the file to PS (by creating an intermediate TIFF file) or save as a JPEG, the settings are applied in my experience.


Sure, but you can change the settings (or turn them "off") in DPP before exporting as a TIFF or a JPEG.

Mike

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Jun 9, 2019 13:38:04   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
gvarner wrote:
Generally not. White balance setting will be retained. In the PSE Editor I can select the camera settings for the preset but usually don’t and my camera settings are as neutral as possible so that the image in the LCD looks similar to what the RAW image would look like on my PC. The image that you can view is just the JPEG thumbnail embedded in the RAW data and it’s affected by your camera settings. At least that’s how I understand it to be.


White balance is not "baked in" with Canon raw files. DPP does not display a JPEG thumbnail embedded in the RAW data when you open a Canon raw file.

Mike

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Jun 9, 2019 13:48:05   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
White balance is not "baked in" with Canon raw files. DPP does not display a JPEG thumbnail embedded in the RAW data when you open a Canon raw file.

Mike


What does DPP display? It’s not displaying the RAW data. It has to convert it to something that you can view.

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Jun 9, 2019 13:51:39   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
gvarner wrote:
What does DPP display? It’s not displaying the RAW data. It has to convert it to something that you can view.


DPP displays the raw file as interpreted by DPP. Why not?

Mike

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