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Is Camera age doomed?
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May 25, 2019 11:19:15   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
ChrisRL wrote:
One night near Christmas last year I was out walking my dog at night when I saw this and immediately snapped it (top picture).

Then I looked at the shot on my iPhone, ran back home, dropped the dog off, picked up my old D600 and reshot (bottom picture).

Maybe you can tell the difference, maybe not. For me, the camera was worth the effort, and the money, and the carrying gear, and the exposure calculation...

For you, maybe not.


If that’s your view close to Christmas I need to live closer to you.

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May 25, 2019 11:21:35   #
Don G
 
I believe the camera age will continue, I can't see the lcd in bright sunlight on these I phones. An eye piece is still the best. At my advanced age it is getting hard to see them. I will stick to my Leicaflex mark 1 with a very bright finder. Or my canon t70 with f 1.4 lens. The marketing mogels want us to keep buying the latest and the greatest that will be changed when the market slows down. Maybe my answer would be to buy one of the newer point and shoot cameras and pur a cloth cover on the back and over our heads. Just like the large format view cameras. Film is still available and so are the chemicals and paper. The only thing lacking is instant gratification of digital cameras which I think makes us take more lousy shots instead of composing carefully.

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May 25, 2019 11:43:19   #
nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida
 
tenny52 wrote:
I agree I missed the point that money, size and weight are no object for you but not the majority of non-pros.
My point is that I have limited budget, and I just want to take decent pictures while viewing on my 40" monitor. I don't want to travel anymore with over $2000 and over 6 lbs of gears.
My point is the P30 Pro while under $1000, it can do just as good picture quality if not better compare to at least $2000 of dslr cameras with lens. So please don't trump me with your $5000 gears.
And the trend of the gap will be widening. This is only my prediction and I don't make a living at predicting.
Of course, it 'might' not be as good as your gear at zoom 100-400, but I think the comparison is not far off, but the phone can do a lot more, besides cost and weight less.
Here, I am talking about the P30 Pro only and not just any smart phone.
I agree I missed the point that money, size and we... (show quote)


That's the point WE THE PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHERS ON THIS SITE don't just shoot to view on a monitor we mainly take photos to print or sell to evolve, and we need pro gear . You keep saying this phone that you like at $1000.00 on a limited budget is a good investment. It's not because although it suits your purpose "it" the phone can't evolve no attachments to upgrade. The company you buy it from wants you to get next years model. You are left with a phone that takes mediocre images that can't be enlarged to sizes that are hung on large walls by Whitewall , and other sites that make metal prints and acrylic . Oh sure an occasional 16 x24 but not a whole lot bigger , they just don't have the bones to be bigger , because the sensor is so small and thin the focal length is to short to do much more make the phone 1 inch thick and you might have something. I am saying if all you have is a thousand dollars and that's your budget get a nice Samsung J8 at $ 180.00 take the remaining $800.00 and buy a used mirrorless Sony RX10 iii with a zoom from 24 mm to 600mm and take great images that will blow that cell phone away . You will have a great phone to stick in your pocket , and light weight camera that can take a great 20 real megapixel images that you can view on your monitor or if you get a once in a life time Image you can blow it up large . It's just insulting to argue with pros that know at the present times cell phones are just toys to entertain amateurs. I do imagine not far in the future some Japanese company will build a APS-C mirrorless small 1 1/4 thick 24 megapixel camera with a phone inside and a 40x zoom.... now you might have something...

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May 25, 2019 12:04:12   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
nikonbrain wrote:
That's the point WE THE PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHERS ON THIS SITE don't just shoot to view on a monitor we mainly take photos to print or sell to evolve, and we need pro gear . You keep saying this phone that you like at $1000.00 on a limited budget is a good investment. It's not because although it suits your purpose "it" the phone can't evolve no attachments to upgrade. The company you buy it from wants you to get next years model. You are left with a phone that takes mediocre images that can't be enlarged to sizes that are hung on large walls by Whitewall , and other sites that make metal prints and acrylic . Oh sure an occasional 16 x24 but not a whole lot bigger , they just don't have the bones to be bigger , because the sensor is so small and thin the focal length is to short to do much more make the phone 1 inch thick and you might have something. I am saying if all you have is a thousand dollars and that's your budget get a nice Samsung J8 at $ 180.00 take the remaining $800.00 and buy a used mirrorless Sony RX10 iii with a zoom from 24 mm to 600mm and take great images that will blow that cell phone away . You will have a great phone to stick in your pocket , and light weight camera that can take a great 20 real megapixel images that you can view on your monitor or if you get a once in a life time Image you can blow it up large . It's just insulting to argue with pros that know at the present times cell phones are just toys to entertain amateurs. I do imagine not far in the future some Japanese company will build a APS-C mirrorless small 1 1/4 thick 24 megapixel camera with a phone inside and a 40x zoom.... now you might have something...
That's the point WE THE PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHERS... (show quote)


Cameras and phones are not investments, unless they are collectibles. They depreciate in value. A pro might capitalize some equipment, but it isn't an investment. It's a capital expense. An amateur may buy equipment, but it's most likely just an expense (a rare, 75-year old Leica MIGHT be an investment).

The idea of printing anything larger than 20x16 is foreign to about 98% of the population. Most people don't have the wall space to display larger prints. But they might display their images on a large 4K UHD TV. So just about any digital camera is acceptable to them if it saves 8.2MB images.

Those printing larger than 20x16 are catering to a very select crowd, or to commercial clients. In that case, yes, we probably want specialized equipment for capture, post processing, printing, and display.

Cell phones are very capable now. For casual photography and video, I use my iPhone 7 Plus. For serious photography and video, I use my Lumix GH4. When I need to do something with greater requirements, I rent the gear for it. Since I don't do landscapes, point-of-purchase displays, architectural photography, or sports and wildlife action, I don't rent very often.

The camera isn't doomed. The camera age isn't going away. It is just changing and right-sizing. Market shares will shift, brands will merge, device form factors will change... so what? It's inevitable.

As always, photographers should choose gear based on their needs, intentions, hopes, dreams, and desires, in about that order. (S)he who dies with the most toys does not win; (S)he is just dead! Make images while you have light.

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May 25, 2019 13:29:40   #
nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida
 
burkphoto wrote:
Cameras and phones are not investments, unless they are collectibles. They depreciate in value. A pro might capitalize some equipment, but it isn't an investment. It's a capital expense. An amateur may buy equipment, but it's most likely just an expense (a rare, 75-year old Leica MIGHT be an investment).

The idea of printing anything larger than 20x16 is foreign to about 98% of the population. Most people don't have the wall space to display larger prints. But they might display their images on a large 4K UHD TV. So just about any digital camera is acceptable to them if it saves 8.2MB images.

Those printing larger than 20x16 are catering to a very select crowd, or to commercial clients. In that case, yes, we probably want specialized equipment for capture, post processing, printing, and display.

Cell phones are very capable now. For casual photography and video, I use my iPhone 7 Plus. For serious photography and video, I use my Lumix GH4. When I need to do something with greater requirements, I rent the gear for it. Since I don't do landscapes, point-of-purchase displays, architectural photography, or sports and wildlife action, I don't rent very often.

The camera isn't doomed. The camera age isn't going away. It is just changing and right-sizing. Market shares will shift, brands will merge, device form factors will change... so what? It's inevitable.

As always, photographers should choose gear based on their needs, intentions, hopes, dreams, and desires, in about that order. (S)he who dies with the most toys does not win; (S)he is just dead! Make images while you have light.
Cameras and phones are not investments, unless the... (show quote)




Well for me times have changed , people do walk into the gallery and all of them walk up to the large gallery wrap canvases and acrylics and want the big stuff even if they have to save for it. These well done images are that good , most sizes 24 x 36 this is usually the smallest most large 32 , 40 x 60 , 84 " are guite often sold in the $1000.00 range . Big walls need big prints that is what we cater to. Most of my wholesale artists sell well mainly 24 x 36 and 27 x 36 . With an occasional 32 x 60 usually a landscape of a local spring or beach sunset or sunrise . I have one local artist who sells guite well at art shows 46 mostly large canvases of 24 x32 and 29 x36 are his mainstay since Christmas this year with some 16 x24 or 12 x16 ... for those who want it to fit into carry on . He has printed with me 2 40 'rolls x 44 " wide that's 80' of prints all sold images , or replacements for sold prints these are 1 1/2 inch gallery wraps since the Holidays. I am a local small time retired 67 year old photographer and printer , I am printing for only 5 artists at this time and I have no spare time . Soon to get busier I just bought a 38 " face mount laminater to do acrylic metallic images for my own work soon for my current clients that want the newest tech ....go big or go home is the new mantra of Acryllic prints and canvases these artists and their clients are eating up this new technically made prints . A lot of large companies like whitewall are printing on Lambda printers using Fugi-flex or Kodak Endura metallic all wet processed silver halide papers then face mounted to 1/4 + 1/2 inch acrylic so a lot of old tech and new tech these printers although using wet processing they are laser based exposures . People want large more than ever....

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May 25, 2019 13:50:44   #
Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA
 
rgrenaderphoto wrote:
...

When somebody can capture this image with a Smartphone, I might pay attention.


Agree, or this one...


(Download)

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May 25, 2019 14:15:14   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
nikonbrain wrote:
Well for me times have changed , people do walk into the gallery and all of them walk up to the large gallery wrap canvases and acrylics and want the big stuff even if they have to save for it. These well done images are that good , most sizes 24 x 36 this is usually the smallest most large 32 , 40 x 60 , 84 " are guite often sold in the $1000.00 range . Big walls need big prints that is what we cater to. Most of my wholesale artists sell well mainly 24 x 36 and 27 x 36 . With an occasional 32 x 60 usually a landscape of a local spring or beach sunset or sunrise . I have one local artist who sells guite well at art shows 46 mostly large canvases of 24 x32 and 29 x36 are his mainstay since Christmas this year with some 16 x24 or 12 x16 ... for those who want it to fit into carry on . He has printed with me 2 40 'rolls x 44 " wide that's 80' of prints all sold images , or replacements for sold prints these are 1 1/2 inch gallery wraps since the Holidays. I am a local small time retired 67 year old photographer and printer , I am printing for only 5 artists at this time and I have no spare time . Soon to get busier I just bought a 38 " face mount laminater to do acrylic metallic images for my own work soon for my current clients that want the newest tech ....go big or go home is the new mantra of Acryllic prints and canvases these artists and their clients are eating up this new technically made prints . A lot of large companies like whitewall are printing on Lambda printers using Fugi-flex or Kodak Endura metallic all wet processed silver halide papers then face mounted to 1/4 + 1/2 inch acrylic so a lot of old tech and new tech these printers although using wet processing they are laser based exposures . People want large more than ever....
Well for me times have changed , people do walk in... (show quote)


Yeah, I hear you. There are a lot of people in galleries, buying large prints. But what some forget is that with 380 million people in the USA, it still takes 3.8 million to equal 1% — most of the top earners and wealthy who can afford fine art. To a photographer or artist catering to that trade, it seems like there are plenty of prospects. Most other folks can’t buy that sort of luxury good, and don’t have the wall space for it.

I worked in a large pro lab for decades. We had a Lambda, a Noritsu 20” printer, and three 44” Epsons (and over 20 special product printers). We also had 40 Noritsu mini-labs capable of 12x18.

The very finest output was from the Epsons. The mini-labs did >95% of our volume. The Epsons handled canvas prints, banners, posters, fine art reproductions, special papers, and large custom composites. The Durst and Noritsu 20 were not very busy. But then less than 1% of our volume was larger than 12x18.

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May 25, 2019 14:35:50   #
tenny52
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
The brand of phone has nothing to do with this. I dunno. Maybe you’re a plant from Huawei trying to drum up support for your company. That might explain your tenuous grasp of the English language.


If I work for Huawei, then I can afford a D850 with power zoom, but may be not my back for long haul.
Here is an interesting comparison of Huawei vs Samsung vs Apple of their latest model
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7dwBw09MLQ
I am using a BLU phone about $150, the reason I don't want to use expensive phone as my main camera is I lost and broke them, or I find their batteries deteriorating over 2-3 years.
Next week, I will be travelling to Turkey, Greece, Hungary and Romania with my newly Fuji X-T10 with 18-55 2.8 on it first mission. Hope I will get decent pictures.

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May 25, 2019 17:15:30   #
rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA
 
tenny52 wrote:
I am not a sky shooter, so I don't know what kind of gears, shooting technique and PP is required to produce such shot.
I don't have expensive Zoom gears either, my best zoom is a Tamron 200-400 5.6 on my D610. And I don't think the zoomed picture quality can match that of the P30 Pro. And my now travel gear is a Fuji x-T10 with 18-55 2.8, mainly to save my neck and back.
Now I know how a Huawei phone can be used as a spying tool and why Trump don't want you to use one to spy on him.


Processing was extensive to change the tint of the sky, lighten and color correct the foreground and enhance the central core dust lanes for visual appeal to illustrate a few. Took me about 2 weeks to arrive at the final image I was look for.

This image was taken with a Sigma 24mm f/1.4 ART lens. Att image is as shot.


(Download)

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May 25, 2019 22:19:12   #
tenny52
 
Bobspez wrote:
Agree, or this one...


or this one
https://petapixel.com/2015/02/20/smartphone-astrophotography-how-i-capture-the-moon-and-planets-with-my-phone/

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May 25, 2019 22:38:45   #
tenny52
 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01Xr7rVkn6A

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May 26, 2019 10:21:38   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 

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May 26, 2019 11:16:44   #
74images Loc: Los Angeles, California
 
nikonbrain wrote:
Why do people keep asking this stupid idiotic question CELL PHONES ARE PHONES THEY WILL NEVER REPLACE A SERIOUS PROFESSIONAL CAMERA PERIOD , Just see how fast you get kicked off a wedding shoot if you show up at a wedding with 2 cell phones and an iPad no one is going to pay you $ 5,000.00 for a wedding I don't care what cell phones do now or in the future , they will never replace any Canon , Nikon , Pentax , Fugi , Sony Camera Pros will always buy the best current Pro Camera their work is too important to not have proper tools those that think otherwise are amateurs as cell phones advance so do the serious cameras outpacing any thing a cellphone can do . If don't realise that you don't own a serious camera and the can't come close to image output . Not just size prints and quality and noise . Wake up as far as mirrorless that won't replace it either until they make a current Pro camera and stick mirrorless tech in it with all the bells and whistles we now enjoy without everything buried in menus. Take a Nikon D850 make it mirrorless inside and leave everything else alone and I would buy it , I would even buy it if it had Canon on it ....p.s. Dirty diaper shooting will never replace an eyepiece on a camera ....
Why do people keep asking this stupid idiotic ques... (show quote)




Damn Straight!

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May 26, 2019 11:24:10   #
74images Loc: Los Angeles, California
 
ChrisRL wrote:
One night near Christmas last year I was out walking my dog at night when I saw this and immediately snapped it (top picture).

Then I looked at the shot on my iPhone, ran back home, dropped the dog off, picked up my old D600 and reshot (bottom picture).

Maybe you can tell the difference, maybe not. For me, the camera was worth the effort, and the money, and the carrying gear, and the exposure calculation...

For you, maybe not.


The Freaking Nikon Strikes Again!

It did the Better Job than a High End Camera Phone.

74images

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May 26, 2019 11:43:00   #
74images Loc: Los Angeles, California
 
What Makes me so Freaking Damn Mad is that Canon, Nikon, Pentax, & Sony, & Other Camera Makers Won't Step Up Notches to Improve or bring Out it's Own Goddamn Camera Phones.

I Still Use my Pocket Canon Powershot SX150 that I Bought from Target in January of 2013, Because of its Features, & I Take Good Care of it, & it Has Done Good for Me, & it has Features that I can be Creative with, that you can't find on Most Camera Phones, even the Damn High End Phones that Canon & Nikon has on its Point & Shoots & D.S.L.R's, as well as my Bridge Camera, Canon SX 50 I Bought in February 2014.

My Two Canons may not have Real Sharper Images as a High End Apple or Rival, but they do the Damn Job as they are Suppose to Do, I Still have my Low End Nikon Coolpix Cameras, & it was a Love/Hate Issue with them, but They Did its Job & Brought me Good Images from Them!

Who the Hell Is going to Spend Around a Grand or More to Buy a Camera Phone from Apple, & you Still can't get those Features like you can on a High End Point & Shoot, or D.S.L.R. or even a Bridge Camera?

All I Can say is to the Major Camera Makers, Fight Back with the Point & Shoots, & Bring a Point & Shoot with a Good Sharp Image, as Well with the Zoom Lenses, as well as Good Night Shot Images.

74images

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