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What are these spots on my negatives?
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Apr 27, 2019 18:03:20   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
I'm copying and scanning 60 years of negatives. This picture is about 20 years old, and I photographed the negative with my Nikon D810 and 55mm f/2.8 Micro lens. Other than reversing to positive and removing a few obvious dust spots, there has been no post processing such as color correction, etc. The issue is mainly the blue spots that you will see better if you download this. They show up occasionally on this batch of 6 rolls of film that were developed at the same time. There is also a brown smudge on the top left. Can I assume that the person in the supermarket who developed these things wasn't careful with their fingers. I've never touched this negative.


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Apr 27, 2019 18:10:18   #
NJphotodoc Loc: Now in the First State
 
It could very well be skin oils from years ago that are degrading the negative. I'm not aware of much you can do without causing further damage.

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Apr 27, 2019 18:25:43   #
carl hervol Loc: jacksonville florida
 
I dough if any one will see them except you there 20 years old you cant nitpick over a couple of specks if they bother you clone them out.

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Apr 27, 2019 18:28:47   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
These could be anything from improperly washed film to fungus.
--Bob
therwol wrote:
I'm copying and scanning 60 years of negatives. This picture is about 20 years old, and I photographed the negative with my Nikon D810 and 55mm f/2.8 Micro lens. Other than reversing to positive and removing a few obvious dust spots, there has been no post processing such as color correction, etc. The issue is mainly the blue spots that you will see better if you download this. They show up occasionally on this batch of 6 rolls of film that were developed at the same time. There is also a brown smudge on the top left. Can I assume that the person in the supermarket who developed these things wasn't careful with their fingers. I've never touched this negative.
I'm copying and scanning 60 years of negatives. T... (show quote)

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Apr 27, 2019 18:29:50   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
NJphotodoc wrote:
It could very well be skin oils from years ago that are degrading the negative. I'm not aware of much you can do without causing further damage.


I'm reversing negatives as I'm asking the question. This one is the first where it's obvious that the blue spots came from someone's fingers. Needless to say, I'm pissed. I have some much better pictures than this one that are semi-ruined because of this, but this one shows the obvious more than the others. The circled area is a fingerprint. I suppose I can try to clean this up in Photoshop or Lightroom, which I believe is my only choice. (This is a cell inside of Alcatraz for anyone interested. We took some German friends there when they visited us. The other picture was taken in Mendocino.) Had I done this negative first, I wouldn't have needed to ask the question.


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Apr 27, 2019 19:12:04   #
alx Loc: NJ
 
When you examine the negatives, are the spots on the EMULSION side, or the base side?

If on the emulsion side, there is not much that can be done, unless the deposit was recent. On the base side, they might be removable with a good film cleaner even after many years with some patient soaking.

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Apr 27, 2019 20:27:58   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
alx wrote:
When you examine the negatives, are the spots on the EMULSION side, or the base side?

If on the emulsion side, there is not much that can be done, unless the deposit was recent. On the base side, they might be removable with a good film cleaner even after many years with some patient soaking.


I'll pull them out later this evening and get back to you. I copied them a couple of months ago and put them away as I copied other pictures. I'm just working with files now (reversing the RAW files made by my camera with the Color Perfect Photoshop plugin.) This is my retirement project, by the way, copying or scanning every negative I have and sorting through them. I've done about 8,000.

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Apr 28, 2019 01:48:56   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
therwol wrote:
Can I assume that the person in the supermarket who developed these things wasn't careful with their fingers.


That is possible, but not enough to assume it.
Also possible is that the negatives were not sufficiently dried before they were slipped into the sleeves. Or that the inside of the sleeves slightly deteriorated over the decades, and either chemically acted upon the surface of the negatives, or simply deposited residue on the negatives. Or that a minute amount of microbes found their way into the sleeves (either before, during or after the negatives were placed in them) and eventually spread onto the negatives. Unless the negatives are 120 format, the spots seem to be a little too small to be caused by fingerprints. On 135 film negatives, a fingerprint will generally cover about 1/3 of the surface.

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Apr 28, 2019 01:50:49   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
alx wrote:
When you examine the negatives, are the spots on the EMULSION side, or the base side?

If on the emulsion side, there is not much that can be done, unless the deposit was recent. On the base side, they might be removable with a good film cleaner even after many years with some patient soaking.


The fingerprint spots are on the emulsion side. I cleaned both sides twice with PEC 12. No difference. Must have eaten into the emulsion. I scanned the before and after results on my Epson V800 scanner and adjusted the tint a bit in Lightroom, so they don't look exactly like the image that I photographed. The fingerprints are still there. Before and after. Again, I'm pissed. This picture is nothing special, but I have some of the California Coast with this problem that are. Again, I didn't cause this. This is the first time these negatives have been out of the envelope they came in.


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(Download)

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Apr 28, 2019 01:56:19   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
rook2c4 wrote:
That is possible, but not enough to assume it.
Also possible is that the negatives were not sufficiently dried before they were slipped into the sleeves. Or that the inside of the sleeves slightly deteriorated over the decades, and either chemically acted upon the surface of the negatives, or simply deposited residue on the negatives. Or that a minute amount of microbes found their way into the sleeves (either before, during or after the negatives were placed in them) and eventually spread onto the negatives. Unless the negatives are 120 format, the spots seem to be a little too small to be caused by fingerprints. On 135 film negatives, a fingerprint will generally cover about 1/3 of the surface.
That is possible, but not enough to assume it. br... (show quote)


35mm. The picture of the Alcatraz cell is the last one on a strip. I think that someone grabbed it by the end and left a partial fingerprint. I can't explain the pattern in the first picture. Doesn't matter. This stuff doesn't come off with cleaning. (PEC 12)

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Apr 28, 2019 10:48:04   #
CPR Loc: Nature Coast of Florida
 
You've pinpointed the cause. Repair with Photoshop will be simple and quick.

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Apr 28, 2019 11:06:14   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
therwol wrote:
I'm copying and scanning 60 years of negatives. This picture is about 20 years old, and I photographed the negative with my Nikon D810 and 55mm f/2.8 Micro lens. Other than reversing to positive and removing a few obvious dust spots, there has been no post processing such as color correction, etc. The issue is mainly the blue spots that you will see better if you download this. They show up occasionally on this batch of 6 rolls of film that were developed at the same time. There is also a brown smudge on the top left. Can I assume that the person in the supermarket who developed these things wasn't careful with their fingers. I've never touched this negative.
I'm copying and scanning 60 years of negatives. T... (show quote)


PEC-12 from Photosol
PEC Pads from Photosol
Ilford Antistaticum cloth
Staticmaster Brush
Dust-Off
Giotto Rocket Blower

All the above ought to be within arm’s reach of your scanner or copy rig.

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Apr 28, 2019 11:10:23   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
therwol wrote:
35mm. The picture of the Alcatraz cell is the last one on a strip. I think that someone grabbed it by the end and left a partial fingerprint. I can't explain the pattern in the first picture. Doesn't matter. This stuff doesn't come off with cleaning. (PEC 12)


PEC 12 won’t repair damage to the chemical structure of emulsion or dyes. It will remove fingerprint oil if you get to it before the acids react with the film.

Some of the spots look like fungus. Others look like chemical residue had time to eat into the film.

Post Processing is your real solution now.

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Apr 28, 2019 12:50:04   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
burkphoto wrote:
PEC-12 from Photosol
PEC Pads from Photosol
Ilford Antistaticum cloth
Staticmaster Brush
Dust-Off
Giotto Rocket Blower

All the above ought to be within arm’s reach of your scanner or copy rig.


I've got all of them except the Ilfort Antistaticum cloth. I won't use canned air on anything except keyboards and the insides of computers to get rid of accumulated dust. It isn't air. It's a fluorocarbon that leaves a residue if you accidentally hold the can in any position except vertical and liquid comes out.

In spite of all of the above, I find that there is contamination on some negatives that is apparently glued on. With black and white negatives, the best solution I've found is to rewash them and finish with Photoflo, but that's very tedious and time consuming and risks damaging the negatives. I won't rewash color negatives. The last step would be to soak them in a stabilizer solution typically containing formaldehyde. (From memory when I used to do color processing myself.)


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Apr 28, 2019 12:50:36   #
hightor Loc: Portland, Maine
 
Never mind all that!
There's a dog gonna steal your van!!!

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