DSLRs are not dead yet! (Page 10): Thank you for this moment of complete sanity! The world changes, technology changes, but Ansel Adams and Annie Leibovitz produce(d) photographs that...

Rational1

burkphoto wrote:

You know, I just wouldn't worry about crap like th... (show quote)

Thank you for this moment of complete sanity! The world changes, technology changes, but Ansel Adams and Annie Leibovitz produce(d) photographs that surpass nearly all of us. This is about the photograph, not the tool.

Rational1

Shouldn't we all be shooting with a PhaseOne XF IQ3 ???

DavidPine Loc: Fredericksburg, TX

Bill_de wrote:

"Some interesting stats on the winning World Press Photo 2019 photographs - over 70% of the photos were shot with Nikon/Canon full-frame DSLR cameras while only 4.4% were taken with a mirrorless camera (only 2.6% were taken with a Sony camera):"

Found on Nikon Rumors

--

I own 3 mirrorless cameras and I don't doubt that things will change as time goes by. I still favor my DSLR's but I will say that the Nikon Z6 is a really good camera.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

Rational1 wrote:

Thank you for this moment of complete sanity! The world changes, technology changes, but Ansel Adams and Annie Leibovitz produce(d) photographs that surpass nearly all of us. This is about the photograph, not the tool.

Thanks to you, and all previous commenters who liked my little essay.

I’ve used lots of different cameras over the years. My knowledge of how to use them (or lack of it, in some cases!) has always been more important than the gear, but having the right tools certainly helps!

xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada

Bill_de wrote:

"Some interesting stats on the winning World Press Photo 2019 photographs - over 70% of the photos were shot with Nikon/Canon full-frame DSLR cameras while only 4.4% were taken with a mirrorless camera (only 2.6% were taken with a Sony camera):"

Found on Nikon Rumors

--

Since 1955 the World Press Photo Contest has recognized professional photographers for their best pictures contributing to the past year of visual journalism. Those professionals indeed tend to use DSLR technology for the most part. The reported numbers do indicate a small number (relatively speaking) of other cameras. Not really a surprise, since professionals have been using the old DSLR technology for years and are heavily invested in the format.

A recent survey of US photographers indicates that there are 53,830 pros in the field. I’ll wager the majority of those identified use DSLR technology. The rest of the world…. Not so much. So it is not surprising pros favour the old technology… I can’t blame them, it's what they have!

I am not even going to hazard a guess how many mirrorless cameras & smart phones are being used by non-professional photographers, however, I will speculate that there are many, many more than DSLRs. Pros use the old tech, for the most part the majority of the balance are using mirrorless, compact or smart phones. The “party” is already over for the DSLR.

"Implementing some truly innovative and unique technologies such as hybrid viewfinders, etc. DSLRs might keep pace with mirrorless innovations, that may be enough to slow their bleeding. It is no longer sufficient for Canon and Nikon to have video modes that are just OK, for example. They need to match Sony (A7R III) Fuji (XT3) and others, spec for spec. At least then, the deciding factors of a purchase would come down to personal preference, and buying into a DSLR system wouldn’t feel like starting a race with one leg stuck in quicksand."

Now, don’t be upset! The DSLR is a great tool and a wonderful camera. Some folks will continue to use it for years to come, however, it is beyond writing on the wall. With the two big boys offering the new technology, they have seen the last verse of this song and are back with new mirrorless technology.

"With the advent of cameras like the Ricoh GR or the Fuji X100F, there is a whole new market of mirrorless fixed lens cameras. Even though there are still more DSLR sales than mirrorless sales in 2017, with the current trends, DSLRs may lose its lead over mirrorless by 2019. As a street photographer, it is already very rare to see a DSLR being used, and it is only a matter of time until eventually, all photographers make the change.

Besides the clear advantages of the EVF, mirrorless cameras also offer other advantages. Whereas high-end DSLRs only can shoot up to 14 photographs per second (or 16fps with mirror lockup), mirrorless cameras are already able to get as high as 20 images per second in burst mode. Due to the physical limitations of the mirror, DSLRs will never advance as far as mirrorless in this area. The design of mirrorless cameras also allows them to be more compact and lighter. It becomes very apparent that mirrorless cameras have already trumped DSLRs in almost every aspect, and with the heavy investments being poured into mirrorless technology, they will only get further ahead.

IMHO, there is no question that DSLRs will become virtually obsolete in the coming years. With current status quo, they are only useful in very specific niches like sports photography or sometimes photojournalism. Other than that, mirrorless systems are far superior in almost every aspect." Just as it did for the first rather miserable digital DSLRs years ago, it will just take some time until the public perception changes and DSLRs will be gone for good.

billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont

EdR wrote:

Can I expect the Speed Graphics to make a comeback🤔

We are talking about DSLR's aren't we? I am assuming that is what the discussion is about.
SPEED GRAPHICS? Really?
OHHHHHHHHHHHH. your making a joke. HA HA HA

xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada

splatbass Loc: Honolulu

larryepage wrote:

I am not opposed to a shift to mirrorless cameras. But after looking carefully at a Z7 a few months ago (holding it and "messing" with it), my conclusions were mixed. I am a person who uses camera controls extensively. The smaller form factor necessarily squeezed tome things close together that I would have wished to be further apart. Lots of folks here have already made mention that we've not yet seen a "professional" mirrorless camera. And I believe that is correct. As an engineer with some experience in these matters, my conclusion is that neither the Z7 nor the Z6 has the level of ruggedness or durability that most people who make their living with those tools would require, especially over time. Let's remember...two of the big advantages that everyone talks about when discussing mirrorless are less weight and reduced size. Those advantages are both going to have to be sacrificed to achieve durability and ruggedness. So I'm guessing that we likely won't see true "professional" mirrorless cameras until the consumer technology is firmly established and its reputation can withstand larger and heavier models. At least that is how I would suggest playing the game.

A bigger problem, regardless of comments that I have read here and other places, is the exposed sensor. This is very real for working photographers opening their cameras in difficult environments, like near erupting volcanoes. It's actually very real for all of us as time passes. Sensors are incredibly sensitive components. Have you stopped to think what it means to have 50 million semiconductor devices exposed to the environment? Cleaning can be as damaging as being contaminated. Current reflex cameras provide two levels of protection for the sensor...the mirror and the shutter. Even if designs are changed to close the mechanical shutter during lens changes, contamination om the front surface of the shutter can much more easily get onto the sensor than contamination on the front surface of the mirror.

This shift in technology is almost certain to happen eventually. As we have more experience, and as our new cameras become older cameras, we'll have to see if what we got was really what we wanted.

I am not opposed to a shift to mirrorless cameras.... (show quote)

True, I have to clean the sensor on my A6000 far more than on my DSLRs. It is a constant battle, and I wonder what frequent cleaning will do to the life of the sensor.

billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont

xt2 wrote:

Since 1955 the World Press Photo Contest has recognized professional photographers for their best pictures contributing to the past year of visual journalism. Those professionals indeed tend to use DSLR technology for the most part. The reported numbers do indicate a small number (relatively speaking) of other cameras. Not really a surprise, since professionals have been using the old DSLR technology for years and are heavily invested in the format.

A recent survey of US photographers indicates that there are 53,830 pros in the field. I’ll wager the majority of those identified use DSLR technology. The rest of the world…. Not so much. So it is not surprising pros favour the old technology… I can’t blame them, it's what they have!

I am not even going to hazard a guess how many mirrorless cameras & smart phones are being used by non-professional photographers, however, I will speculate that there are many, many more than DSLRs. Pros use the old tech, for the most part the majority of the balance are using mirrorless, compact or smart phones. The “party” is already over for the DSLR.

"Implementing some truly innovative and unique technologies such as hybrid viewfinders, etc. DSLRs might keep pace with mirrorless innovations, that may be enough to slow their bleeding. It is no longer sufficient for Canon and Nikon to have video modes that are just OK, for example. They need to match Sony (A7R III) Fuji (XT3) and others, spec for spec. At least then, the deciding factors of a purchase would come down to personal preference, and buying into a DSLR system wouldn’t feel like starting a race with one leg stuck in quicksand."

Now, don’t be upset! The DSLR is a great tool and a wonderful camera. Some folks will continue to use it for years to come, however, it is beyond writing on the wall. With the two big boys offering the new technology, they have seen the last verse of this song and are back with new mirrorless technology.

"With the advent of cameras like the Ricoh GR or the Fuji X100F, there is a whole new market of mirrorless fixed lens cameras. Even though there are still more DSLR sales than mirrorless sales in 2017, with the current trends, DSLRs may lose its lead over mirrorless by 2019. As a street photographer, it is already very rare to see a DSLR being used, and it is only a matter of time until eventually, all photographers make the change.

Besides the clear advantages of the EVF, mirrorless cameras also offer other advantages. Whereas high-end DSLRs only can shoot up to 14 photographs per second (or 16fps with mirror lockup), mirrorless cameras are already able to get as high as 20 images per second in burst mode. Due to the physical limitations of the mirror, DSLRs will never advance as far as mirrorless in this area. The design of mirrorless cameras also allows them to be more compact and lighter. It becomes very apparent that mirrorless cameras have already trumped DSLRs in almost every aspect, and with the heavy investments being poured into mirrorless technology, they will only get further ahead.

IMHO, there is no question that DSLRs will become virtually obsolete in the coming years. With current status quo, they are only useful in very specific niches like sports photography or sometimes photojournalism. Other than that, mirrorless systems are far superior in almost every aspect." Just as it did for the first rather miserable digital DSLRs years ago, it will just take some time until the public perception changes and DSLRs will be gone for good.

Since 1955 the World Press Photo Contest has recog... (show quote)

Really? Is that why the Nikon D850 was on back order for over 11 months, is that why you still cannot get the Nikon 500 5.6 lens that was introduced last year? I wonder if anyone has informed Nikon to stop producing these products because they will become obsolete in the coming years?

xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada

Quite the analysis Bill! A good read... Indeed!

xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada

Robyn H wrote:

Do you realize how ridiculous that statement is, and how wrong it is? Are you one of the people who needs to justify their own actions by criticizing others or are you simply an antagonist looking to rattle a few cages?! Either way, you are wrong. Nothing bad happens to something just because something different was purchased.

Methinks it was simply a light-hearted comment...

Cheers!

PierreD

larryepage wrote:

I am not opposed to a shift to mirrorless cameras. But after looking carefully at a Z7 a few months ago (holding it and "messing" with it), my conclusions were mixed. I am a person who uses camera controls extensively. The smaller form factor necessarily squeezed tome things close together that I would have wished to be further apart. Lots of folks here have already made mention that we've not yet seen a "professional" mirrorless camera. And I believe that is correct. As an engineer with some experience in these matters, my conclusion is that neither the Z7 nor the Z6 has the level of ruggedness or durability that most people who make their living with those tools would require, especially over time. Let's remember...two of the big advantages that everyone talks about when discussing mirrorless are less weight and reduced size. Those advantages are both going to have to be sacrificed to achieve durability and ruggedness. So I'm guessing that we likely won't see true "professional" mirrorless cameras until the consumer technology is firmly established and its reputation can withstand larger and heavier models. At least that is how I would suggest playing the game.

A bigger problem, regardless of comments that I have read here and other places, is the exposed sensor. This is very real for working photographers opening their cameras in difficult environments, like near erupting volcanoes. It's actually very real for all of us as time passes. Sensors are incredibly sensitive components. Have you stopped to think what it means to have 50 million semiconductor devices exposed to the environment? Cleaning can be as damaging as being contaminated. Current reflex cameras provide two levels of protection for the sensor...the mirror and the shutter. Even if designs are changed to close the mechanical shutter during lens changes, contamination om the front surface of the shutter can much more easily get onto the sensor than contamination on the front surface of the mirror.

This shift in technology is almost certain to happen eventually. As we have more experience, and as our new cameras become older cameras, we'll have to see if what we got was really what we wanted.

I am not opposed to a shift to mirrorless cameras.... (show quote)

Sure, Larry... And the proof is, not one day goes by that I don't meet a photograph working near erupting volcanoes.

Seriously: You are correct in theory, but in practice all it takes is to be ready to change lens and this can be done literally in a few seconds, which should almost eliminate the risk of contamination. Plus, many mirrorless cameras include an internal automatic sensor cleaning system (ultrasonic, perhaps others too?) that seems to work quite well and gets rid of fine dust particles, etc. It is also possible that future sensors will include a surface protecting layer that makes them easier to clean manually, if necessary.

As to ruggedness, not sure what you are thinking of until you tell us what makes a camera "professional". Some models, e.g, the Olympus OMD MK II and the lenses that come with it, are exceptionally rugged and on top of it, completely water-sealed. Read reviews by professional photographers who use such cameras in harsh environments and you'll see what they say on this subject.

And where does the notion that the Z7 and Z6 are not durable come from? These models have been on the market for a short period and so it's anyone guess whether they are or not durable. Until we have an established track record as a reliable source of information, discussing this issue is pointless.

User ID

Bill_de wrote:

...........
..... World Press Photo 2019 photographs - over 70%
of the photos were shot with Nikon/Canon full-frame
DSLR cameras while only 4.4% were taken with a
mirrorless camera (only 2.6% were taken with a Sony
camera) ...... Found on Nikon Rumors
--

User ID

`

"DSLRs are not dead yet!"

Oozing pus, spitting up blood,
bloated, disoriented, confused,
yet still they walk amongst us.

larryepage Loc: North Texas area

PierreD wrote:

Sure, Larry... And the proof is, not one day goes ... (show quote)

The volcano example was offered really as an extreme but real case based on an assignment by a photographer that I know personally. Pele's Hair from the eruption floats in air and can enter a camera from any angle. It is both sharp and abrasive, and can quickly destroy a shutter.

You are correct that we don't yet know how durable and reliable the Z6 and Z7 are going to be. The nature of the IBIS system makes it subject to damage from handling or unintended bumps and bruises. But the reality is that all we have right now are visual and tactile clues. The ones I got from handling the camera were not encouraging. I may be completely wrong, though. We will hope.

I did not mention pricing in this post. I'd actually love to have a Z7 to use with a limited array of lenses in some situations. But not for $3700 or for anything close to that price. When compared against the performance and capability of a D850, a price around $2500 or so would start to arouse my interest.

In short, I am interested in this technology. But not at the current pricing. And not until we know a little bit more about it as it is used over time.