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AF fine tune, why?
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Apr 23, 2019 12:34:38   #
RRS Loc: Not sure
 
Gene51 wrote:
That has been my experience as well. BTW, Canon has similar language in their literature, manuals and on line. AF Fine Tune is a temporary and/or creative solution( deliberate defocus).


Say Gene could you explain why Nikon has added a feature to their 850 and at least two other bodies that allows you to take a shot in live view and then be able to use it to fine tune the body to the same standard as live view? I've asked billnikon several times and he has avoided the question. I understand why Canon and Nikon both advise not to try but they do add it to their camera bodies. I know you know what to demand from Nikon but what about the poor sod that sends in their camera and never checks to see if Fine Tune is at 0 and then also never checks to see what it is set to when it is returned. If the setting has not changed and the camera works then the job was done correctly however if the Fine Tune settings are now at a + or - then it could have been done at home, in reality the problem was not fixed as it should have been. You can go into the Nikon repair facility but I have shipped a lens and body to Canon only to get both back untouched because both were in specs. I learned how to do it myself, don't have the balls to dismantle a new 600mm f/4.0 or a 1DXMK 2 and what I have done seems to work for me. Could it be better, most likely yes if both body and lens were set to dead center tolerances.

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Apr 23, 2019 13:34:41   #
PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA
 
edit : duplicate

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Apr 23, 2019 13:36:54   #
PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA
 
SpyderJan wrote:
Jerry, neither the camera nor the lens knows what part of the subject is your focal point. It will focus on something. Usually OEM lenses will not need to be calibrated, but you are more likely to find that lens from a manufacturer other than the camera maker could need attention...


Actually, OEM lenses don't fare better than others.

As far as I know, a DSLR camera uses a focusing device in the viewfinder that SHOULD be in the same plane as the photo sensor, but isn't exactly. "Lens" adjustment can correct for this. If you use Live View, you use the photo sensor so "lens" adjustment isn't needed. If you have the relatively new DPAF on your photo sensor it can be as fast as the phase detection in the viewfinder path.

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Apr 23, 2019 14:01:27   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Architect1776 wrote:
I have numerous Canon lenses and experimented with that.
They are perfect as issued.
Found it a waste of time but educational.
Once I get a mirrorless RF mount camera that game will be unneccessary.
Go ahead and check for your education but thus far I have not found any Canon lens I have owned needed it.

It is highly unlikely that all your Canon lenses and/or third part lenses are "perfect as issued". The need for calibration is generally due to manufacturing tolerances that can affect the mating of lenses to bodies. Some who are unlucky will have to calibrate most or all of their lenses. Some who are very lucky will only have to calibrate a few. Some that claim all their lenses are perfect probably don't realize that many already sharp lenses can be made noticeably sharper with calibration. And, of course, there is always that group that just has lower standards of performance. If you haven't tried to calibrate all your lenses you may be missing out on just how good they may be.

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Apr 23, 2019 14:17:58   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
RRS wrote:
Say Gene could you explain why Nikon has added a feature to their 850 and at least two other bodies that allows you to take a shot in live view and then be able to use it to fine tune the body to the same standard as live view? I've asked billnikon several times and he has avoided the question. I understand why Canon and Nikon both advise not to try but they do add it to their camera bodies. I know you know what to demand from Nikon but what about the poor sod that sends in their camera and never checks to see if Fine Tune is at 0 and then also never checks to see what it is set to when it is returned. If the setting has not changed and the camera works then the job was done correctly however if the Fine Tune settings are now at a + or - then it could have been done at home, in reality the problem was not fixed as it should have been. You can go into the Nikon repair facility but I have shipped a lens and body to Canon only to get both back untouched because both were in specs. I learned how to do it myself, don't have the balls to dismantle a new 600mm f/4.0 or a 1DXMK 2 and what I have done seems to work for me. Could it be better, most likely yes if both body and lens were set to dead center tolerances.
Say Gene could you explain why Nikon has added a f... (show quote)


Who says Canon advises not to try? Canon understands that manufacturing tolerances means that while lenses and bodies should work acceptably well for most people out of the box, calibration allows you to maximize IQ. Nikon understands that as well, but suggests that calibration is not necessary because they know how difficult the process is. They assume that most people who attempt it will make thing worse either through misunderstanding of the process or lack of attention to detail, which then translates into a service call. There is a reason why lens calibration tools are added to mid and upper level camera bodies.

It is my experience that the need for calibration may more obvious and more critical for fast lenses and shallow depths of field. Perhaps the controversy over whether or not calibration is needed is due in part to the differences in the lenses being used, the selected apertures, and the lighting and distance of the subject. Those primarily shooting distant landscapes at f/16 in bright sunlight, for example, may not see an obvious need to calibrate.

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Apr 23, 2019 18:08:34   #
RRS Loc: Not sure
 
mwsilvers wrote:
Who says Canon advises not to try? Canon understands that manufacturing tolerances means that while lenses and bodies should work acceptably well for most people out of the box, calibration allows you to maximize IQ. Nikon understands that as well, but suggests that calibration is not necessary because they know how difficult the process is. They assume that most people who attempt it will make thing worse either through misunderstanding of the process or lack of attention to detail, which then translates into a service call. There is a reason why lens calibration tools are added to mid and upper level camera bodies.

It is my experience that the need for calibration may more obvious and more critical for fast lenses and shallow depths of field. Perhaps the controversy over whether or not calibration is needed is due in part to the differences in the lenses being used, the selected apertures, and the lighting and distance of the subject. Those primarily shooting distant landscapes at f/16 in bright sunlight, for example, may not see an obvious need to calibrate.
Who says Canon advises not to try? Canon understan... (show quote)


You are so right, I really started to see the need with a 70-200mm f/2.8 ,a 300mm f/2.8 and a 600mm f/4.0. I was referring to a general statement that has been repeated here by a certain member. I was very disappointed when I got into digital and bought a book on either the 5DMK 2 or the 7DMK 2, you know the ones that are so much better then the manual that comes with your camera. When it came to the part on micro-adjusting all it basically said was the in order to save the trees, it would take-up so many pages, that you should just skip it or send it back to the factory or dealer. The other 4 lenses I normally shoot at f/5.6 to f/11 and don't really worry too much about them, although I have checked all of my lenses. In a perfect, well almost, I'd much prefer to have Canon set the lens to 0 and the body too.

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Apr 23, 2019 18:41:08   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
RRS wrote:
Say Gene could you explain why Nikon has added a feature to their 850 and at least two other bodies that allows you to take a shot in live view and then be able to use it to fine tune the body to the same standard as live view? I've asked billnikon several times and he has avoided the question. I understand why Canon and Nikon both advise not to try but they do add it to their camera bodies. I know you know what to demand from Nikon but what about the poor sod that sends in their camera and never checks to see if Fine Tune is at 0 and then also never checks to see what it is set to when it is returned. If the setting has not changed and the camera works then the job was done correctly however if the Fine Tune settings are now at a + or - then it could have been done at home, in reality the problem was not fixed as it should have been. You can go into the Nikon repair facility but I have shipped a lens and body to Canon only to get both back untouched because both were in specs. I learned how to do it myself, don't have the balls to dismantle a new 600mm f/4.0 or a 1DXMK 2 and what I have done seems to work for me. Could it be better, most likely yes if both body and lens were set to dead center tolerances.
Say Gene could you explain why Nikon has added a f... (show quote)


AS I have stated repeatedly on this site. I have owned over 20 AF Nikon Lenses. I do show prints to 20X30 that are ALL tack sharp. I do not need to fine tune any of my Nikon AF lenses. If you feel the need to fine tune your lenses, you are free to do so. I do not see where there is any need to argue about it.
Good luck and keep on shooting until the end.

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Apr 23, 2019 20:04:23   #
Larryshuman
 
I've shot Nikon cameras and lens since 1969. I have 11 Nikon lens and none are AF tuned and I can print to 24x48 with any of them. It seems to me by AF adjusting to one distance makes no sense. I tried AF adjustment one day and the lens would not focus at infinity so I deleted the adjustment. I just shot 3,743 images and all can be easily enlarged and the lens and camera used are not AF adjusted.

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Apr 23, 2019 21:45:09   #
NormanTheGr8 Loc: Racine, Wisconsin
 
In the manufacturing process everything has a acceptable tolerance, in other words every lens that rolls of the line may be slightly different but within tolerance it's just not possible to make every part a "carbon" copy . now add the same thing for the camera body , add a couple of years of use bouncing around and a micro adjustment brings everything back to as close to perfect as you can get . I use Riekan FoCal software to do this for me on my 7D ll I check it about every 6 mo or so my Canon 100-400 has not changed as much as the setting for my Tamron 18-400 has .


1 last thought If it wasn't something you might want to do , why put it in your camera in the first place ?

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Apr 23, 2019 21:53:02   #
RRS Loc: Not sure
 
billnikon wrote:
AS I have stated repeatedly on this site. I have owned over 20 AF Nikon Lenses. I do show prints to 20X30 that are ALL tack sharp. I do not need to fine tune any of my Nikon AF lenses. If you feel the need to fine tune your lenses, you are free to do so. I do not see where there is any need to argue about it.
Good luck and keep on shooting until the end.


Bill, I don't have a problem with what or how you shoot. My only question is if it's not a good thing, fine tune, then why has Nikon refined it for their high end bodies. Just your thought as why Nikon is making it possible to fine tune, if felt needed, to the level of live view. I wish Canon would offer the same thing. I know how you shoot and your right , for how you shoot you don't need to fine tune and that's great. I understand where Gene is coming from and I agree with a lot of what he has said. Bill, if one day you got a Nikon lens that was soft to your standards, would you consider fine tune , exchange it, or send it in to Nikon to fix. As a working professional, just your thoughts. I'm not arguing, just trying to see both sides of the coin. If you don't want to respond that's OK. I hope we both keep shooting to the end too!

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Apr 24, 2019 11:02:36   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
billnikon wrote:
AS I have stated repeatedly on this site. I have owned over 20 AF Nikon Lenses. I do show prints to 20X30 that are ALL tack sharp. I do not need to fine tune any of my Nikon AF lenses. If you feel the need to fine tune your lenses, you are free to do so. I do not see where there is any need to argue about it.
Good luck and keep on shooting until the end.


Larryshuman wrote:
I've shot Nikon cameras and lens since 1969. I have 11 Nikon lens and none are AF tuned and I can print to 24x48 with any of them. It seems to me by AF adjusting to one distance makes no sense. I tried AF adjustment one day and the lens would not focus at infinity so I deleted the adjustment. I just shot 3,743 images and all can be easily enlarged and the lens and camera used are not AF adjusted.


What type of shots were they? Landscapes or spot focused portraits at f/1.4? The kind of photography is related to the level of accuracy need in AF.

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Apr 24, 2019 11:04:56   #
BebuLamar
 
RRS wrote:
Bill, I don't have a problem with what or how you shoot. My only question is if it's not a good thing, fine tune, then why has Nikon refined it for their high end bodies. Just your thought as why Nikon is making it possible to fine tune, if felt needed, to the level of live view. I wish Canon would offer the same thing. I know how you shoot and your right , for how you shoot you don't need to fine tune and that's great. I understand where Gene is coming from and I agree with a lot of what he has said. Bill, if one day you got a Nikon lens that was soft to your standards, would you consider fine tune , exchange it, or send it in to Nikon to fix. As a working professional, just your thoughts. I'm not arguing, just trying to see both sides of the coin. If you don't want to respond that's OK. I hope we both keep shooting to the end too!
Bill, I don't have a problem with what or how you ... (show quote)


My take is that if you have problem with AF then there is a problem with AF. Fine tune can not fix it.

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Apr 24, 2019 11:21:30   #
Jerry G Loc: Waterford, Michigan and Florida
 
Most people seem to agree there is no problem in live view. If there is no problem in live view but there is when using the viewfinder the problem would be with the focus sensors. You should not have to adjust the sensors, if you do, you should send the camera in to be adjusted by a qualified repairman and not have to make adjustment for individual lenses.

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Apr 24, 2019 11:51:47   #
BebuLamar
 
Jerry G wrote:
Most people seem to agree there is no problem in live view. If there is no problem in live view but there is when using the viewfinder the problem would be with the focus sensors. You should not have to adjust the sensors, if you do, you should send the camera in to be adjusted by a qualified repairman and not have to make adjustment for individual lenses.


It's not the sensor that is the problem. It's really the variation of the lenses and the technique used to focus using the phase detect sensor. The contrast detect technique which is used in live view can only detect whether it's in focus or out of focus. Thus the camera needs to move the lens until it detect good focus. With the phase detect sensor when using the viewfinder the camera can tell when it's out of focus how much it needs to move the lens to get it in focus. It would then command the lens to move this distance without having to keep checking if the image is in focus and thus it's faster. However, due to the differences with each lens the lens may not move the exact amount as commanded by the camera.

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Apr 24, 2019 14:26:33   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
dsmeltz wrote:
What type of shots were they? Landscapes or spot focused portraits at f/1.4? The kind of photography is related to the level of accuracy need in AF.


I shoot mainly wildlife. My widest aperture is F4 to F5.6. I shoot animal portraits at a distance. Do not need 1.4. Have not had a need to fine tune. For those that do, I am very happy for them. I also have several 2.8 and 1.8 lenses that have not needed fine tuned. I guess I know my equipment well and understand photography. I do use single spot focus and keep the eye in focus like I did when I did portraits.
Below a shot with the Nikon 500 5.6 at 5.6. Juvenile Great Blue Heron, about 6 weeks old.



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