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My RAW question for the day.
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Apr 20, 2019 15:17:09   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
As you already have the software, I'd say simply take the time and experiment a little. Pick a few images and try one approach. Then try the other approach with the same images. See what works best for you.

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Apr 20, 2019 15:40:20   #
Resqu2 Loc: SW Va
 
rook2c4 wrote:
As you already have the software, I'd say simply take the time and experiment a little. Pick a few images and try one approach. Then try the other approach with the same images. See what works best for you.


I may do that just for the heck of it but in the end I don’t want to add a bunch of steps as uploading to LR is slow enough.

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Apr 20, 2019 15:41:36   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
TriX wrote:
In my opinion, DPP has two advantages and one disadvantage, the advantages are that with low light/high ISO images, raw conversion with DPP yields images with approximately 1/2 stop less noise than ACR (I tested this). The reason may be attributable to advantage number 2. DPP applies the internal camera presets such as noise reduction, contrast, sharpness, etc. to the raw image as well as JPEGs. I find this convenient because once I have “tuned” those in-camera presets, I don’t need to do the usual batch processing (such as sharpening a raw image) in PS/LR. On the other hand, once you have determined those corrections you can apply them to raw images in LR/PS as a preset. The disadvantage is that while DPP will export directly into PS via a menu selection, it creates an intermediate large TIFF file which is then imported into PS plus you have to take that extra step. DPP’s editing tools are very limited compared to LR/PS, so you’ll typically need to do your final processing in PS anyway, so the added advantages of DPP may not compensate for the extra step(s) in the workflow of having to use multiple applications. Typically, I convert in DPP when I’m using high ISOs and need every last bit of noise reduction I can get.
In my opinion, DPP has two advantages and one disa... (show quote)


That's all how I used to use it! I started using it on the advice of a panel of experts who spoke at a DIMA seminar (at the old PMAI convention) about a decade ago. The whole panel recommended using Canon, Nikon, etc. OEM software for the best color conversions and NR, and Lightroom for workflow.

I do the same thing with Panasonic's supplied SilkyPix Developer Studio software when I need to finesse a conversion. Normally, I use Lightroom with custom presets.

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Apr 20, 2019 17:01:46   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
Resqu2 wrote:
So I’m getting into more paid work and only shooting raw now. I have been importing straight into Lightroom CC and working from there on my IPad Pro. I’m always reading stuff on the internet and saw a few articles detailing why you should never do that and they include samples showing the raw file side beside in LR and in CDPP and of course the CDPP looks much better right off. The articles pretty much says to use the software that came with your camera which is CDPP for us Canon guys. It goes on to say you can export to PS or LR from there but to always start with the Canon software. What are y’all thoughts on this? Am I doing things wrong or making it harder on myself by not using the included software? Thanks as always.
So I’m getting into more paid work and only shooti... (show quote)


It's a thing of preference, I too have DPP of course, but have hardly ever used it, I'm a PS only guy so to say. I too have heard that DPP is suppose to be better at working with Canon's raw files, but I have experienced the opposite, so I stick with PS!

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Apr 20, 2019 17:57:30   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Resqu2 wrote:
I may do that just for the heck of it but in the end I don’t want to add a bunch of steps as uploading to LR is slow enough.


Have a look at something called Fast Raw Viewer. You have to pay for it, but it's cheap. You can zip through your RAW with virtually no render time looking at 100% zoom. Tag everything to delete, rotate what needs to be rotated and then import only the culled results into LR. I might still have 2 or 3 that need a side by side compare in LR, but I don't waste time importing and rendering the other images that will be deleted. FRV has a lot of short cut keys and customizations. I had to consult the manual to get the select / delete to work as I expected, but by culling outside LR is a lot more efficient. If you star- or color-rate your images inside LR, those come in from FRV too so you can start there.

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Apr 20, 2019 18:27:19   #
Resqu2 Loc: SW Va
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Have a look at something called Fast Raw Viewer. You have to pay for it, but it's cheap. You can zip through your RAW with virtually no render time looking at 100% zoom. Tag everything to delete, rotate what needs to be rotated and then import only the culled results into LR. I might still have 2 or 3 that need a side by side compare in LR, but I don't waste time importing and rendering the other images that will be deleted. FRV has a lot of short cut keys and customizations. I had to consult the manual to get the select / delete to work as I expected, but by culling outside LR is a lot more efficient. If you star- or color-rate your images inside LR, those come in from FRV too so you can start there.
Have a look at something called Fast Raw Viewer. Y... (show quote)


Thanks for the idea, I hate waiting on everything to import into LR just to go and delete half of them.

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Apr 20, 2019 18:52:35   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Resqu2 wrote:
Thanks for the idea, I hate waiting on everything to import into LR just to go and delete half of them.


Also, DPP will present a library of large thumbnails of the raw images which you can sort through and pick the ones you want to export into PS/LR. It’s fast, so I often use it to triage a shoot and pick the shots I want to work on further. It imports the raw files very quickly - give it a try and see what you think - it’s free and easy to download.

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Apr 21, 2019 07:32:05   #
Don, the 2nd son Loc: Crowded Florida
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
I used Canon DPP for years, applying lens corrections, noise processing and a good deal of editing. Then, exporting the results as 16-bit TIFF for "finishing" in LR. The results were always better after LR than just stopping at DPP.

I gave up on that approach about three years ago and now work exclusively in the older standalone LRv6. I can't speak for the "old days", but I believe the comments to start in DPP were more accurate the longer into the past you trace that advice. I took several images and tested my own ability to edit from DPP to LR compared to just starting in LR and convinced myself I was more time-efficient working only in LR and the differences, where I thought I could still find any, were not justified when compared to the vast amount of time saved using only the LR develop module. Whether you want to / need to work in PS as well, is your own decision.

The only truly unique thing DPP can do is handle RAW from new cameras at the time the camera is sold. Adobe will catch up, soon, but at no promised turnaround time. Adobe has lens profiles, for all brands of lenses, where DPP is only Canon-branded lenses. The Canon software may be more effective on noise reduction "one to one" to Adobe, but neither are as effective as third-party dedicated noise software.

My comments apply to LR classic. The LR mobile software is not as powerful. You might go back and re-read the comments about DPP and consider what specifically and why the author is recommending starting in DPP and what actions the author(s) are performing in DPP prior to taking the image to Adobe. The only 'real' difference I've noted is Canon's profiles where Canon Standard is superior to Adobe Standard. As an EOS shooter, be sure to begin your RAW edits by setting the "Camera Calibration" to "Camera Standard".
I used Canon DPP for years, applying lens correcti... (show quote)


y experience also. For awhile I PP'd each raw file in each program and then compared them, found no discernable difference.

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Apr 21, 2019 09:13:09   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
I do not use the software made by the camera I have in use.

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Apr 21, 2019 10:14:11   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Resqu2 wrote:
So I’m getting into more paid work and only shooting raw now. I have been importing straight into Lightroom CC and working from there on my IPad Pro. I’m always reading stuff on the internet and saw a few articles detailing why you should never do that and they include samples showing the raw file side beside in LR and in CDPP and of course the CDPP looks much better right off. The articles pretty much says to use the software that came with your camera which is CDPP for us Canon guys. It goes on to say you can export to PS or LR from there but to always start with the Canon software. What are y’all thoughts on this? Am I doing things wrong or making it harder on myself by not using the included software? Thanks as always.
So I’m getting into more paid work and only shooti... (show quote)


I start by downloading the pics onto either my iPad or iPhone. I can view the pics and anything I want to work on immediately I can import into LR. I’ll wait until I get home to import the rest. Once they’re uploaded they’re in my iCloud so I can work on them anywhere. And once they’re imported into LR they’re also in my LR cloud.

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Apr 21, 2019 10:22:11   #
Tronjo Loc: Canada, BC
 
Resqu2 wrote:
So I’m getting into more paid work and only shooting raw now. I have been importing straight into Lightroom CC and working from there on my IPad Pro. I’m always reading stuff on the internet and saw a few articles detailing why you should never do that and they include samples showing the raw file side beside in LR and in CDPP and of course the CDPP looks much better right off. The articles pretty much says to use the software that came with your camera which is CDPP for us Canon guys. It goes on to say you can export to PS or LR from there but to always start with the Canon software. What are y’all thoughts on this? Am I doing things wrong or making it harder on myself by not using the included software? Thanks as always.
So I’m getting into more paid work and only shooti... (show quote)

You say that you do paid work and you do the post in iPad. I am curious about how do you calibrate it?

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Apr 21, 2019 10:27:33   #
foathog Loc: Greensboro, NC
 
Resqu2 wrote:
Thanks for all the great info guys, so much to learn about all of this stuff.


No kidding. Hope you don't have too much to do around the house. You can spend a lifetime figuring that stuff out. LOL

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Apr 21, 2019 10:37:48   #
Resqu2 Loc: SW Va
 
Tronjo wrote:
You say that you do paid work and you do the post in iPad. I am curious about how do you calibrate it?


So far no complaints, I do use LR on my desktop that has a very good monitor occasionally but mostly done on my IPad in LR CC. I mostly do natural light type shots, no studio type stuff unless the theatre I work at has a nice set on stage then I will use it for some of the employees kids from time to time so it’s mostly couples, a prom here and there and doing Senior shots this week. Photography isn’t my full time job and never will be. What I charge really covers my gas and time. I don’t advertise for hire as of now, just take jobs that I’m ask to do from referrals of ones that I have done work for.

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Apr 21, 2019 12:08:39   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
Resqu2 wrote:
So I’m getting into more paid work and only shooting raw now. I have been importing straight into Lightroom CC and working from there on my IPad Pro. I’m always reading stuff on the internet and saw a few articles detailing why you should never do that and they include samples showing the raw file side beside in LR and in CDPP and of course the CDPP looks much better right off. The articles pretty much says to use the software that came with your camera which is CDPP for us Canon guys. It goes on to say you can export to PS or LR from there but to always start with the Canon software. What are y’all thoughts on this? Am I doing things wrong or making it harder on myself by not using the included software? Thanks as always.
So I’m getting into more paid work and only shooti... (show quote)


I assume "CDPP" is "Canon Digital Photo Pro" RAW converter... (I've seen it called "DPP"... but never seen "CDPP" before now).

Anyway, I've used DPP in the past... But only with high ISO images because the Noise Reduction in it was better than in earlier versions of LR and PS. After dealing with the noise in images, I passed them off (as a TIFF) to PS for finishing.

However, since CS5 and, probably LR5, I've found they do better with noise and have stopped using DPP at all. And I've since added Imagenomic Noiseware plug in to Photoshop and that works great for the highest ISO images I do.

If you are doing "paid work", you are making key two mistakes.

1. LR is only half the process. There is NO WAY most images can be completely finished in it. PS is necessary, to complement LR and complete image post-processing.

2. You shouldn't do post-processing on a portable tablet or laptop. You need a fixed work-station in controlled and consistent lighting conditions with a calibrated monitor. Otherwise you will constantly mis-adjust your images.

The problem with a tablet or laptop is keeping them calibrated. Ever time you move to a different location with different lighting, you really should be re-calibrating the screen. You also change your viewing angle all too easily with portables, which skews what you are seeing. So even if you were to calibrate every time you move, you'd still have problems.

Some people use an external monitor set up in a permanent location with a laptop. But to do that requires a laptop capable of handling an external monitor and I don't know if this is even a possibility with a tablet.

Your post-processing will be "all over the place", wrong more often than it's right, as long as you're working with an uncalibratable portable.

You might even be better shooting RAW + JPEG and seeing if the JPEGs are better for your customers. (Some customers... particularly commercial users... require 16 bit TIFFs instead of 8 bit JPEGs. They also may need a different color space such as CMYK. Can't do those properly without a calibrated work station.)

In addition, there's a lot of post-process "finishing" work that simply can't be done in LR. Yes, it's a great organizer and is fine for the global adjustments, setting up a crop, straightening and a few other things. But it's fine retouching tools and such are crude by comparison to PS. LR also can't work in layers for selective adjustments. PS and LR are designed to complement each other. I can't recall the last time I exported an image directly from LR and called it "finished". I do export small "proof" and "catalog" size images from LR with only minimal work on them.... But every image that I finish for higher end-use such as a print or a digital file for a customer is ALWAYS handed off from LR to Photoshop for completion.

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Apr 21, 2019 12:14:24   #
AntonioReyna Loc: Los Angeles, California
 
I have bought many Canons and have never used their software, although I am told it is quite good. I use Photoshop and always shoot JPEG + RAW.

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