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White Balance when there is no gray
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Apr 16, 2019 13:52:49   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
Deanie1113 wrote:
I always struggle with setting the correct white balance for shots like flowers and forests. I use Lightroom's WB dropper or just click "auto" or "flash" from the dropdown for everything else, but for shots where there just isn't a neutral in the scene this doesn't seem to work consistently. So I end up going back and forth eyeballing it and guessing. I have a gray card, but when hiking, etc., it's just not convenient. Thank you, smart people.

Just use the back of your hand.

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Apr 16, 2019 14:07:07   #
Deanie1113
 
rjaywallace wrote:
Deanie1113 - I bought a couple of 4x6” WB cards from B&H Photo for minimal cost. The cards are cardboard and weigh nothing in your backpack. They will wear out with use, but are easily replaceable. Flowers and forests are relatively static subjects, so you should have time to take several test photos. If you get the WB correct or at least close to ‘spot on’, it will reduce the time you need to spend in post. They are really quite convenient. Best wishes.


I like the idea of a small, light card. I'll look into that. Thanks! Yeah, I get tired of messing with WB in post.

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Apr 16, 2019 14:09:26   #
Deanie1113
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
I have a grey card in my wallet, the same size as a credit card. Easily can be moved from wallet to pants pocket or to breast pocket of shirt for easy access and use in the field when actively needed.

But, it's getting onto years now since I've used the card. I now let the camera operate in auto WB in all situations while shooting in RAW in all situations. I then adjust the K temp and Green-Red tint in LR during editing. You need a calibrated monitor and may need to futz with the values both initially and during a final check of results after editing. I don't click a control point within the image, rather just eye-ball. Use the before / after swap to help eyeball the needed changes.

The auto WB adjustment within LR is usually worse than no change, but the software analysis helps you understand, typically, the direction of the update needed. The auto analysis may make the image too warm or cool, but you can use the direction of the change to determine the update to the original WB / K-temp as determined by the camera. Or, sometimes the LR software will indicate the opposite direction, making an image warmer (higher K temp) when the "correct" update is to pull the K-temp lower from the out-of-camera temp. As you experience and observe the tendencies of the camera and the software, you get a feel for how they work, and over time, can work more efficiently in your editing.

To me, the best aspect of LR is setting the WB on one image and then syncing that change across all similar images. I may tweak the WB further as I work across the images, but usually, after I've "established" the WB for that situation / time of day, I just need to sync across the images and move onto other edits.
I have a grey card in my wallet, the same size as ... (show quote)


Thank you, I think I'm going to get a small gray card. Thanks for the observations!

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Apr 16, 2019 14:09:28   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Deanie1113 wrote:
I like the idea of a small, light card. I'll look into that. Thanks! Yeah, I get tired of messing with WB in post.


It's a WhiBal card, purchased from B&H. It has holes for hanging on a lanyard, if that's more convenient than a pocket.

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Apr 16, 2019 14:36:41   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
A gray card is nothing special. It's just a white card with a lower luminance. Any white thing will do. A piece of paper. A 3x5 card. the back of a business card.

In Lightroom, you can select an eyedropper to set the white balance. When you move the eyedropper around the image it will tell you the relative red, green and blue values at the eyedropper. When you click on a spot, LR will adjust the temperature and tint so that all the numbers are equal. For a white spot, the numbers might be something like 93.0, 93.0, 93.0 after the adjustment. For a gray card the numbers might be 25.0, 25.0, 25.0. The key is that the numbers are equal, not what the absolute values of the numbers are. The only limitation with the LR eyedropper is that if the luminance is too high (I don't know just what the number is for "too high") then LR will think that that spot is blown out and it won't be able to choose good values for the temperature and tint.

If there's someone in the photo, an eyeball or a tooth can sometimes be used as a white spot, although they are sometimes subject to discoloration.

In the forest without anything white available, maybe you could throw a golf ball into the scene. You can clone it out later with Photoshop, or take a shot, then throw the golf ball out there and take another shot. Use the golf ball to set the white balance, then use those values for the shot without the golf ball. Ping pong balls are probably cheaper than golf balls but they don't throw as easily.

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Apr 16, 2019 14:50:04   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Deanie1113 wrote:
I always struggle with setting the correct white balance for shots like flowers and forests. I use Lightroom's WB dropper or just click "auto" or "flash" from the dropdown for everything else, but for shots where there just isn't a neutral in the scene this doesn't seem to work consistently. So I end up going back and forth eyeballing it and guessing. I have a gray card, but when hiking, etc., it's just not convenient. Thank you, smart people.


Get a Pocket WhiBal from B&H or Adorama or someone. Expose a frame of it before you expose your subject. In post, do a white balance on the WhiBal card. Then copy your settings to the next frame (or make a preset for similar exposures).

A step up from that is the X-Rite ColorChecker Passport.

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Apr 16, 2019 14:56:17   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
Haydon wrote:
Why is color accuracy and proper white balance inappropriate for outdoor work?


Natural light is never truly neutral. Of course you can adjust the color balance of an outdoor image to make it look as if the scene was captured in neutral light, but then you are not really achieving accuracy, because that is not what the scene actually looked like.

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Apr 16, 2019 15:13:21   #
Haydon
 
rook2c4 wrote:
Natural light is never truly neutral. Of course you can adjust the color balance of an outdoor image to make it look as if the scene was captured in neutral light, but then you are not really achieving accuracy, because that is not what the scene actually looked like.


Over the course of the day the Kelvin shifts according to the suns position therefore the white balance would need to be adjusted if you want a neutral. Reflections and overcast will also have a bearing so I'm not sure whether I agree with that. Could you provide a link to substantiate that please. I've come to see differences plainly seen with the light early in the morning, midday and in the evening. I prefer neutral skin tones although that's my own creative decision. I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm inquiring to learn.

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Apr 16, 2019 17:19:41   #
Deanie1113
 
burkphoto wrote:
Get a Pocket WhiBal from B&H or Adorama or someone. Expose a frame of it before you expose your subject. In post, do a white balance on the WhiBal card. Then copy your settings to the next frame (or make a preset for similar exposures).

A step up from that is the X-Rite ColorChecker Passport.


Thank you, to me that sounds super-simple and logical and I am going to do that. Now, in a forest scene, just where would you put it? Like leaned up against a tree in the foreground?

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Apr 16, 2019 17:47:44   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Deanie1113 wrote:
Thank you, to me that sounds super-simple and logical and I am going to do that. Now, in a forest scene, just where would you put it? Like leaned up against a tree in the foreground?


In the same light as your most important subject.

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Apr 16, 2019 20:53:36   #
Deanie1113
 
burkphoto wrote:
In the same light as your most important subject.


Got it. Thank you!

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Apr 17, 2019 05:54:51   #
sueyeisert Loc: New Jersey
 
nekon wrote:
The red hat registers as mid grey


Yes,also jeans also measure mid grey. Compare the palm of your hand to a grey card then use the palm of your hand.

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Apr 17, 2019 08:14:01   #
mborn Loc: Massachusetts
 
sueyeisert wrote:
Yes,also jeans also measure mid grey. Compare the palm of your hand to a grey card then use the palm of your hand.



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Apr 17, 2019 08:35:05   #
RRS Loc: Not sure
 
Deanie1113 wrote:
I always struggle with setting the correct white balance for shots like flowers and forests. I use Lightroom's WB dropper or just click "auto" or "flash" from the dropdown for everything else, but for shots where there just isn't a neutral in the scene this doesn't seem to work consistently. So I end up going back and forth eyeballing it and guessing. I have a gray card, but when hiking, etc., it's just not convenient. Thank you, smart people.


There is a way to find neutral gray, go to "photoshopessentials.com" and look up "an easy way to find neutral gray in a photo with Photoshop". It may seem complicated at first but very quickly it becomes second nature.

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Apr 17, 2019 08:52:59   #
peterg Loc: Santa Rosa, CA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
I have a grey card in my wallet, the same size as a credit card. Easily can be moved from wallet to pants pocket or to breast pocket of shirt for easy access and use in the field when actively needed.
Same here.

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