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White Balance when there is no gray
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Apr 16, 2019 06:05:36   #
Deanie1113
 
I always struggle with setting the correct white balance for shots like flowers and forests. I use Lightroom's WB dropper or just click "auto" or "flash" from the dropdown for everything else, but for shots where there just isn't a neutral in the scene this doesn't seem to work consistently. So I end up going back and forth eyeballing it and guessing. I have a gray card, but when hiking, etc., it's just not convenient. Thank you, smart people.

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Apr 16, 2019 06:12:49   #
Tomfl101 Loc: Mount Airy, MD
 
I sometimes use a simple white sheet of paper from a shirt or coat pocket. Although white paper sheets vary in color, so do gray cards and color checkers. You can also use it to gauge proper exposure by adjusting EV until highlight alarm stops blinking.

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Apr 16, 2019 06:14:37   #
nekon Loc: Carterton, New Zealand
 
I have a red Canon baseball cap. I put this in same lighting as the scene I am photographing, and take a spot reading off this hat, which equals 13% grey. This sets wb and correct exposure., Yes 18% grey is wrong, Kodak announced in the 50's that all exposure systems are calbrated at 12.9% grey

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Apr 16, 2019 06:20:45   #
Tomfl101 Loc: Mount Airy, MD
 
Maybe that explains why you won’t get the same reading when you measure light in a scene with an incident meter vs a reflected reading off a gray card. So why would Kodak continue the 18% standard?
Also- how do you get proper white balance from a red hat?

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Apr 16, 2019 07:06:33   #
nekon Loc: Carterton, New Zealand
 
The red hat registers as mid grey

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Apr 16, 2019 08:02:25   #
Tomfl101 Loc: Mount Airy, MD
 
Yes, good for exposure but not for color.

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Apr 16, 2019 08:04:43   #
rjaywallace Loc: Wisconsin
 
Deanie1113 wrote:
I always struggle with setting the correct white balance for shots like flowers and forests. I use Lightroom's WB dropper or just click "auto" or "flash" from the dropdown for everything else, but for shots where there just isn't a neutral in the scene this doesn't seem to work consistently. So I end up going back and forth eyeballing it and guessing. I have a gray card, but when hiking, etc., it's just not convenient. Thank you, smart people.

Deanie1113 - I bought a couple of 4x6” WB cards from B&H Photo for minimal cost. The cards are cardboard and weigh nothing in your backpack. They will wear out with use, but are easily replaceable. Flowers and forests are relatively static subjects, so you should have time to take several test photos. If you get the WB correct or at least close to ‘spot on’, it will reduce the time you need to spend in post. They are really quite convenient. Best wishes.

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Apr 16, 2019 08:18:30   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
I have a grey card in my wallet, the same size as a credit card. Easily can be moved from wallet to pants pocket or to breast pocket of shirt for easy access and use in the field when actively needed.

But, it's getting onto years now since I've used the card. I now let the camera operate in auto WB in all situations while shooting in RAW in all situations. I then adjust the K temp and Green-Red tint in LR during editing. You need a calibrated monitor and may need to futz with the values both initially and during a final check of results after editing. I don't click a control point within the image, rather just eye-ball. Use the before / after swap to help eyeball the needed changes.

The auto WB adjustment within LR is usually worse than no change, but the software analysis helps you understand, typically, the direction of the update needed. The auto analysis may make the image too warm or cool, but you can use the direction of the change to determine the update to the original WB / K-temp as determined by the camera. Or, sometimes the LR software will indicate the opposite direction, making an image warmer (higher K temp) when the "correct" update is to pull the K-temp lower from the out-of-camera temp. As you experience and observe the tendencies of the camera and the software, you get a feel for how they work, and over time, can work more efficiently in your editing.

To me, the best aspect of LR is setting the WB on one image and then syncing that change across all similar images. I may tweak the WB further as I work across the images, but usually, after I've "established" the WB for that situation / time of day, I just need to sync across the images and move onto other edits.

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Apr 16, 2019 08:23:36   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
nekon wrote:
I have a red Canon baseball cap. I put this in same lighting as the scene I am photographing, and take a spot reading off this hat, which equals 13% grey. This sets wb and correct exposure., Yes 18% grey is wrong, Kodak announced in the 50's that all exposure systems are calbrated at 12.9% grey


The reason why the palm of the hand trick works is that Kodak developed the sensor to properly expose the white color skin of a white female model.

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Apr 16, 2019 08:31:33   #
Tomfl101 Loc: Mount Airy, MD
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
I have a grey card in my wallet, the same size as a credit card. Easily can be moved from wallet to pants pocket or to breast pocket of shirt for easy access and use in the field when actively needed.

But, it's getting onto years now since I've used the card. I now let the camera operate in auto WB in all situations while shooting in RAW in all situations. I then adjust the K temp and Green-Red tint in LR during editing. You need a calibrated monitor and may need to futz with the values both initially and during a final check of results after editing. I don't click a control point within the image, rather just eye-ball. Use the before / after swap to help eyeball the needed changes.

The auto WB adjustment within LR is usually worse than no change, but the software analysis helps you understand, typically, the direction of the update needed. The auto analysis may make the image too warm or cool, but you can use the direction of the change to determine the update to the original WB / K-temp as determined by the camera. Or, sometimes the LR software will indicate the opposite direction, making an image warmer (higher K temp) when the "correct" update is to pull the K-temp lower from the out-of-camera temp. As you experience and observe the tendencies of the camera and the software, you get a feel for how they work, and over time, can work more efficiently in your editing.

To me, the best aspect of LR is setting the WB on one image and then syncing that change across all similar images. I may tweak the WB further as I work across the images, but usually, after I've "established" the WB for that situation / time of day, I just need to sync across the images and move onto other edits.
I have a grey card in my wallet, the same size as ... (show quote)


I’ve tried Auto WB and find it very erratic. It always attempts to counter the dominant color of the scene. For instance, a red shirt will render a face blue, then point to a pink shirt and the face goes magenta. I like to use manual WB. It tends to lock the correct color in similar lighting and allows for more accurate syncing in post.

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Apr 16, 2019 08:37:00   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Tomfl101 wrote:
I’ve tried Auto WB and find it very erratic. It always attempts to counter the dominant color of the scene. For instance, a red shirt will render a face blue, then point to a pink shirt and the face goes magenta. I like to use manual WB. It tends to lock the correct color in similar lighting and allows for more accurate syncing in post.

The difference is only that I probably spend more time in LR getting the WB "right" by making the adjustments manually on the computer than manually in the camera. This is all digital-based work where the level of effort, level of familiarity is the difference on "where" rather than the final result where the "where" is immaterial.

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Apr 16, 2019 08:41:50   #
Haydon
 
Not always convenient but for accurate colors and white balance, look into the ColorChecker. It also has a "Dual Illuminant DNG" mode for mixed lighting which far surpasses any PS masking to balance the Kelvin. B&H periodically has it on sale at a reduced price if you are patient. There is no better way in getting accurate skin tones.

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Apr 16, 2019 09:36:37   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
Haydon the OP is in a forest not a studio... while I use the ColorChecker for studio sessions it isn't very appropriate or germane for remote location sessions...

"...I have a gray card, but when hiking, etc., it's just not convenient..." Deanie1113 have you considered downsizing your gray card? As others have mentioned a small card can work just as well...

Interesting side note: I have a mild cataract in one eye... allows me to cover one eye to see the shift toward yellow... so if you think you can "color balance" by eye" in post? Maybe rethink this, k?

All the best on your journey Deanie1113

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Apr 16, 2019 10:06:04   #
Haydon
 
Thomas902 wrote:
Haydon the OP is in a forest not a studio... while I use the ColorChecker for studio sessions it isn't very appropriate or germane for remote location sessions...

"...I have a gray card, but when hiking, etc., it's just not convenient..." Deanie1113 have you considered downsizing your gray card? As others have mentioned a small card can work just as well...

Interesting side note: I have a mild cataract in one eye... allows me to cover one eye to see the shift toward yellow... so if you think you can "color balance" by eye" in post? Maybe rethink this, k?

All the best on your journey Deanie1113
Haydon the OP is in a forest not a studio... while... (show quote)


Why is color accuracy and proper white balance inappropriate for outdoor work?

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Apr 16, 2019 10:47:51   #
a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel
 
https://petapixel.com/2018/09/08/plumbers-tape-is-a-cheap-way-to-white-balance-photos/

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