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What the heck is HDR?
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Nov 6, 2011 14:55:52   #
mcq Loc: Tracy, CA
 
I have thousands of 35mm slides but I am a relative newbie when it comes to digital. I use a Canon S200 because it was cheap and gets all of the candid shots I want. While I would like to get something with a decent lens system, it simply doesn't fit my budget. But, I read the posts, admire the photos and envy the equipment in use and I keep seeing a reference to HDR. What is HDR?

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Nov 6, 2011 15:25:25   #
KDM Imagery Loc: Pueblo West, CO
 
mcq wrote:
I have thousands of 35mm slides but I am a relative newbie when it comes to digital. I use a Canon S200 because it was cheap and gets all of the candid shots I want. While I would like to get something with a decent lens system, it simply doesn't fit my budget. But, I read the posts, admire the photos and envy the equipment in use and I keep seeing a reference to HDR. What is HDR?

HDR stands for high dynamic range. You can find all sorts of info on it on the web. I have several HDR pictures on my website at www.kdmimagery.zenfolio.com

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Nov 6, 2011 15:26:35   #
Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_dynamic_range_imaging

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Nov 6, 2011 16:24:23   #
oleg Loc: NYC
 
To shoot for HDR you need 3 exposures- -2, 0, +2
Shot on a tripod.
Best HDR soft is a Bracketeer. Also there're Photomatix, PShop and others.
HDR is getting a bad rap as many people who use it seem to like the LSD effect. I shoot the HDR way but try to get the images to look as natural as possible.
Attached is a result of a test. 9 exposures from 1/8000 to 4 sec's.
It was a test on a blend of the lightbulb, windows and ambient light. That's why lens flair is to be ignored. No other lights were used to light the scene. Personally, I was blown away by the results. I see the filament of the 500W lightbulb, view outside, texture of white drapes and shadow details in the room. Processed by Bracketeer. Avail for a Mac only. See if a similar soft EnfuseGUI is avail for a PC.
Need to see more? www.marchphoto.com Esp section recent shoots. Everything there is shot this way.
Oleg March



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Nov 6, 2011 19:54:49   #
arphot Loc: Massachusetts
 
Check the forum out. There are numerous threads covering this.

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Nov 6, 2011 23:41:54   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
Just a couple of slight corrections.

It is possible to do HDR with less than three exposures, and some use many more.

You can do it with one exposure and software. You first make two or more copies of the single explosure using different exposure adjustments in the software and then use HDR software to combine them. Purists don't like that but it works.

The Nikon D5100 has HDR processing built into the camera. It uses two exposures. You can try them with different ranges of EV.

The main point is that you are trying to make detail in both the shade and the light more visible. Some suggest that makes it more like what your eyes can see.

Regards,
Larry Leach




oleg wrote:
To shoot for HDR you need 3 exposures- -2, 0, +2
Shot on a tripod.
Best HDR soft is a Bracketeer. Also there're Photomatix, PShop and others.
HDR is getting a bad rap as many people who use it seem to like the LSD effect. I shoot the HDR way but try to get the images to look as natural as possible.
Attached is a result of a test. 9 exposures from 1/8000 to 4 sec's.
It was a test on a blend of the lightbulb, windows and ambient light. That's why lens flair is to be ignored. No other lights were used to light the scene. Personally, I was blown away by the results. I see the filament of the 500W lightbulb, view outside, texture of white drapes and shadow details in the room. Processed by Bracketeer. Avail for a Mac only. See if a similar soft EnfuseGUI is avail for a PC.
Need to see more? www.marchphoto.com Esp section recent shoots. Everything there is shot this way.
Oleg March
To shoot for HDR you need 3 exposures- -2, 0, +2... (show quote)

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Nov 7, 2011 00:23:30   #
oleg Loc: NYC
 
MCQ,
you can't get proper results w. 1 or 2 exposures. Either your highlights will be blown out w. no info in them or opening shadows will create such noise that you will realize that you need at least 3 exposures.
LLeach, Are you trying to help MCQ or just to lead him/her astray? Or just for the sake of saying something? My advise is based on thousands of shots this way on a commercial level for some of the top clients in the industry.


RE-read my quote. It's there for a reason.

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Nov 7, 2011 00:29:15   #
tkhphotography Loc: Gresham, Or, not Seattle
 
agree 100+%, you can't do a proper HDR with only one exposure.
No software in the world is gonna bring out hi's or lo's if it wasn't there in the original exposure shot; it can maybe "mimic" or "make something up" but you need to vary your shutter speed to get the full range. Don't use aperture changes, most of the pros recommend shutter changes.

A lot of them also recommend exposing for the right side of the histiogram more than the low side.

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Nov 7, 2011 00:56:45   #
oleg Loc: NYC
 
Thanks TKH,
When highlights are washed out - there's no info stored in the image. When image is black it still has a lot of info that just gets bundled up in black. But you can still get it out. The drawback is noise.
I've heard that changing F Stop changes images. Haven't tested that. I do shoot in AV mode, changing the shutter speed.
BTW, forgot to mention. Turn auto focus off. Camera can re-focus in between the exposures. Don't notice it on the shoot- loose the shot.
Even when the camera's on the tripod a cable release should be used. Finger pressure throws images out of perfect registration. Aligning layers doesn't always work perfectly.
2 of my tricks to share.
1) I saved an action that I call Safe Bright in PShop. Select highlights, soften edges, reverse selection, make brighter.
2) Something I started doing lately- (PShop) :
open levels; move left arrow to the right till it's going into upslope and image looks a bit too dark then move middle slider to the left to bring the overall brightness to desired level, ignoring blacks. If blacks become too black I use History erase on them. I like the
"puch" it gives to the images.

BTW, shoot RAWs. Even when I have a proper color balance set on the camera JPGs tend to have a cast. I re-set color balance when I convert RAWs to JPGs and then I'm happy w. the color. Recently I stopped saving JPGs when shooting. It was a slow transition. I was always saving images in JPGs and RAWs in camera. First I was using JPGs, turning to RAWs only if I wasn't happy. But I've realized I wasn't happy so often I started starting (;-) w. RAWs. Now I realize I don't need JPGs from the camera anymore. My last reason for storing them was that if there's a file corruption I'll have at least 1 of them. Low and behold. Something happened and I did have corrupted files. But it happened to both- RAWs and JPGs. Luckily I was shooting 3 exposures so I lost 1 of 3 and the shots were OK.

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Nov 7, 2011 01:55:48   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
Hi,

Ah, I see we have are one of those "purists" I mentioned. Actually the more pure up you a couple at least and say you can't do it with less than five. Some use up to 13.

Then there are those guys at Nikon who don't know much about photography either and built into their camera (the D5100) a way to do it with two and only two exposures.

I do appreciate your opinion on the matter and the fact that it comes from experience. I am certainly not as experienced in this matter.

You might want to work on humility a bit.

Regards,
Larry Leach





oleg wrote:
MCQ,
you can't get proper results w. 1 or 2 exposures. Either your highlights will be blown out w. no info in them or opening shadows will create such noise that you will realize that you need at least 3 exposures.
LLeach, Are you trying to help MCQ or just to lead him/her astray? Or just for the sake of saying something? My advise is based on thousands of shots this way on a commercial level for some of the top clients in the industry.


RE-read my quote. It's there for a reason.
MCQ, br you can't get proper results w. 1 or 2 exp... (show quote)

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Nov 7, 2011 02:16:48   #
oleg Loc: NYC
 
I don't consider myself to be a purist. I'm just sharing in 1 post what I've learned in many years of tests.
3 exposures is a good start. I actually shoot 3 even if I do not need it. But this way when I open my images in Bridge they are all lined up and I do not have to think which images are part of which set. I did a test w. 9 expo's too- 1/8000 to 6 seconds. Every rule is to be broken sometimes.

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Nov 7, 2011 07:41:30   #
Willy Loc: Alaska
 
mcq wrote:
I have thousands of 35mm slides but I am a relative newbie when it comes to digital. I use a Canon S200 because it was cheap and gets all of the candid shots I want. While I would like to get something with a decent lens system, it simply doesn't fit my budget. But, I read the posts, admire the photos and envy the equipment in use and I keep seeing a reference to HDR. What is HDR?



HDR is a technique that should be used with much more discretion than it is.
Here's some humor about it.
http://lewiscollard.com/cameras/hdr-sucks/

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Nov 7, 2011 07:59:58   #
arphot Loc: Massachusetts
 
Another debate of the century. It is suggested that depending on the scene, three exposures is minimal. It's what most of the software currently available recommends and almost all of the tutorials and write-ups as well. Just highs and lows may work for some processing, but the original exposure should be in there to "knit" together the higher and lower exposures in order to create a more even result.

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Nov 7, 2011 09:44:57   #
2 Dog Don Loc: Virginia Beach VA
 
Lets add some info on the + and -. That is + or - a number of EVs which stands for exposure valaue. An EV is either one ISO change, or one change in shutter speed it is equivelant to increasing or decreasing light by 50%. It is also one f stop but in HDR the F stop should not be changes otherwise the depth of field will change that is not good!

The objective is to get each part of an image properly exposed then merge them into a single properly exposed image. How many images are necessary is a function of the scene as said by arphot.

Different cameras provide different bracketing but you can take control if you learn how to use the cameras exsposure compensation tool

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Nov 7, 2011 09:59:55   #
CamObs Loc: South America (Texas)
 
Read the lewis collard rant...but HDR does make my cellphone photos better It has it's place as do all photo manipulations. Anyone remember color solarization? HDR really does work for commercial situations. Especially when you need inside and outside to be lit as if your eye were seeing it.

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