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What are the Legitimate Functions of Government ?
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Nov 18, 2012 20:35:11   #
tschmath Loc: Los Angeles
 
JoeV wrote:
Someone asked "how do we pay." I can't find your comment back right now, but I would like to make an observation about what we can and cannot afford.

I am troubled by the assertion I hear often in Wisconsin that we cannot afford higher taxes. I challenge that.

I know. There are a lot of people out of work....I know some of them, and I feel for them. I get that. But if there are, say, 10% unemployed, we have a 90% employment rate. Now those who are employed may indeed be making less than they used to. I get that too.

Nevertheless, every time I look up how people spend their money,
how the gross national product is spent, I see that as a society we still spend about 10% of our money on entertainment and eating out. This is, in other words, discretionary income. We don't need to spend our money on this. We choose to. I see that the sports stadiums are still packed. I saw on the news a while back that some town spent 60 million dollars for a football stadium for its high school. And how much did we just spend for election advertising? And how much did the latest movie take in? And how much did we just spend on the latest iteration of the cell phone? Oh I know, this spending is all good for the economy. But the choice to spend all that money as we did is a choice. We could have chosen, as a society, to spend it differently. We are not nearly as much the victims as we like to think. Maybe not individually, but as a society, we can afford to pay higher taxes. Whether that is what we should do is another question, another debate. But it seems to me that the honest thing is to say, "We don't think paying more taxes is a good thing, even though we could."
Someone asked "how do we pay." I can't ... (show quote)


A very astute observation.

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Nov 18, 2012 20:43:05   #
Bmac Loc: Long Island, NY
 
JoeV wrote:
I am troubled by the assertion I hear often in Wisconsin that we cannot afford higher taxes. I challenge that. .............But it seems to me that the honest thing is to say, "We don't think paying more taxes is a good thing, even though we could."


I am troubled by the assertion I hear from politicians that I can afford higher taxes. Where I live my property & school taxes for a small piece of property are $9,000 per year. Almost $800 a month! My sales tax is 8.625%. Then, of course, I must pay income taxes.

With all due respect Joe, if you wish to pay higher taxes you can simply write a check to the IRS. They will accept it gladly, perhaps even send you an Obama decal for your front window. 8-)

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Nov 18, 2012 20:46:17   #
Bmac Loc: Long Island, NY
 
tschmath wrote:
A very astute observation.


Astute? You can send an additional check also Tschmath. :thumbup:

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Nov 18, 2012 20:54:59   #
UP-2-IT Loc: RED STICK, LA
 
DEBJENROB wrote:
PrairieSeasons wrote:
DEBJENROB wrote:
PrairieSeasons wrote:
DEBJENROB wrote:
PrairieSeasons wrote:
tschmath wrote:
One of the constitutionally mandated jobs of the federal government is to "promote the general welfare." For me that means making sure I have clean air to breathe and water to drink. It means making sure my food is safe. It means making sure I have health care. It means making sure that I don't live in squalor when I'm too old to work anymore. It means making sure that 10-year olds don't work in sweatshops. It means making sure that everyone has a minimal level of income from their employment. It means making sure that everyone has the right to vote. It means equal pay for equal work. It means that everyone can use the same lunch counters and schools. That to me is a large part of what the federal government is supposed to do.
One of the constitutionally mandated jobs of the f... (show quote)


Do you have any suggestions as to how we will pay for all this?
quote=tschmath One of the constitutionally mandat... (show quote)


How do we not pay for it .....
quote=PrairieSeasons quote=tschmath One of the c... (show quote)


That's easy. We continue to run up the national credit card to the point that our creditors refuse more and then we hit a brick wall. I was hoping for suggestions as to how to avoid that.
quote=DEBJENROB quote=PrairieSeasons quote=tsch... (show quote)


Actually the answer is simple ..... increase taxes or those who could be afford .... why go back to the rates under Bill Clinton ..... lets go back to the rates under Ronald Reagan .... yes ... we have to reduce spending .... how about national health care .... put medical personal on salary with incentives for keeping their patients healthy .... how about investing in education so that we can grow the economy and increase GDP .... remember it is not how much we owe but what the ratio of debt to GDP is ... I could go on and on .... but it will not make a difference .....
quote=PrairieSeasons quote=DEBJENROB quote=Prai... (show quote)


Great sentimental response. Unfortunately the math doesn't work.

The national government is borrowing 35% of what it spends. A trillion dollars per year. It will not be possible to raise a trillion dollars per year in taxes. In fact, the president's proposals will raise $1.6 trillion over TEN YEARS. That's $160 billion per year along with a lot of assumptions that that rate of taxation won't crater the economy.

We still need hundreds of billions per year in cost reductions in order to avoid the true financial armageddon in front of us. (And I'm not talking about the fiscal cliff on Jan 1 - that is relatively minor in comparison to what will happen if we don't manage better).

The longer we wait to balance the budget the more difficult and painful it will be. If we wait long enough, we won't have to worry about how to do it, that will be decided by others.
quote=DEBJENROB quote=PrairieSeasons quote=DEBJ... (show quote)


That is a canned answer ..... I did not refer to the Presidents plan .... I said go back to the tax rates of the Reagan years ..... and also allow only the deductions allowed during those years ....
quote=PrairieSeasons quote=DEBJENROB quote=Prai... (show quote)


Are you sure you want to go back to Reagans tax plan?
He was one of the real failures as President.

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Nov 18, 2012 21:04:31   #
PrairieSeasons Loc: Red River of the North
 
UP-2-IT wrote:


Are you sure you want to go back to Reagans tax plan?
He was one of the real failures as President.


There's a blatant revisionist statement for you. Make sure you wipe your shoes if you happen to step in it.

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Nov 18, 2012 21:41:43   #
spinkick Loc: Watseka IL
 
Spending only 10% of our income freely sounds very sad yet the government wants to take more. That is just wrong! We need that entertainment, toys etc it gives us hope that life is worth living. Why should I go to work everyday day after day and get nothing for it. And then to have my little wealth 'redistributed' to some lazy crackwhore is just tooooo much. Why do we have to support these lazy good for nothings. They give nothing to society but not only take they DEMAND.

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Nov 18, 2012 21:47:08   #
Vanderpix Loc: New Jersey
 
PrairieSeasons wrote:
UP-2-IT wrote:


Are you sure you want to go back to Reagans tax plan?
He was one of the real failures as President.


There's a blatant revisionist statement for you. Make sure you wipe your shoes if you happen to step in it.


That depends on your point of view

Reply
 
 
Nov 18, 2012 21:48:25   #
Vanderpix Loc: New Jersey
 
spinkick wrote:
Spending only 10% of our income freely sounds very sad yet the government wants to take more. That is just wrong! We need that entertainment, toys etc it gives us hope that life is worth living. Why should I go to work everyday day after day and get nothing for it. And then to have my little wealth 'redistributed' to some lazy crackwhore is just tooooo much. Why do we have to support these lazy good for nothings. They give nothing to society but not only take they DEMAND.


So you think that class of society is the cause for high taxes?

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Nov 18, 2012 22:33:25   #
spinkick Loc: Watseka IL
 
Let me tell you two stories that illustrate my point.
I live in a rural community that has only 1 doctor-we all know that there will be waiting-just the way it is. In the waiting room with me was a woman that worked at the Walmart, two retirees, a woman who cooks at the school bringing her father. A couple people stopped by to ask their wait time then left again we all chose to just sit. Then arrived a lazy welefare monger with her poly-tattooed friend. She 'had a terrible sore throat' yet went out 9 times to smoke. But her real reason was "to get something for my nerves. i've got terrible stress". The two were conversing loudly on their new smartphones. She began yelling at the office staff that she didn't have time to wait around she had 'things to do'. They then got into a loud discussion about some 'be-ache' who had done something with tattoo's boyfriend. Then she complained how the food pantry didn't "give me as much this wee". Now medicaid patients have a $3.65 copay. She was outraged over this "why do we even bother to pay insurance then if we have to give you money". Since when does welefare which is free to her count as paying insurance.


Story 2: last month lazy slob at work complaining loudly "only 4 more days and i won't have to be eating cereal" Referring to when the link cards come out. She always complains how she suffers so even though also had a smartphone and polytattoos. "So poor I can't feed my kids." Few days later she is showing around pictures of herself and babydaddy in their smurf costumes at the bar halloween party.

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Nov 18, 2012 22:38:32   #
Vanderpix Loc: New Jersey
 
spinkick wrote:
Let me tell you two stories that illustrate my point.
I live in a rural community that has only 1 doctor-we all know that there will be waiting-just the way it is. In the waiting room with me was a woman that worked at the Walmart, two retirees, a woman who cooks at the school bringing her father. A couple people stopped by to ask their wait time then left again we all chose to just sit. Then arrived a lazy welefare monger with her poly-tattooed friend. She 'had a terrible sore throat' yet went out 9 times to smoke. But her real reason was "to get something for my nerves. i've got terrible stress". The two were conversing loudly on their new smartphones. She began yelling at the office staff that she didn't have time to wait around she had 'things to do'. They then got into a loud discussion about some 'be-ache' who had done something with tattoo's boyfriend. Then she complained how the food pantry didn't "give me as much this wee". Now medicaid patients have a $3.65 copay. She was outraged over this "why do we even bother to pay insurance then if we have to give you money". Since when does welefare which is free to her count as paying insurance.


Story 2: last month lazy slob at work complaining loudly "only 4 more days and i won't have to be eating cereal" Referring to when the link cards come out. She always complains how she suffers so even though also had a smartphone and polytattoos. "So poor I can't feed my kids." Few days later she is showing around pictures of herself and babydaddy in their smurf costumes at the bar halloween party.
Let me tell you two stories that illustrate my poi... (show quote)


Why do these people upset you so?

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 22:59:53   #
FRENCHY Loc: Stone Mountain , Ga
 
Vanderpix wrote:
spinkick wrote:
Let me tell you two stories that illustrate my point.
I live in a rural community that has only 1 doctor-we all know that there will be waiting-just the way it is. In the waiting room with me was a woman that worked at the Walmart, two retirees, a woman who cooks at the school bringing her father. A couple people stopped by to ask their wait time then left again we all chose to just sit. Then arrived a lazy welefare monger with her poly-tattooed friend. She 'had a terrible sore throat' yet went out 9 times to smoke. But her real reason was "to get something for my nerves. i've got terrible stress". The two were conversing loudly on their new smartphones. She began yelling at the office staff that she didn't have time to wait around she had 'things to do'. They then got into a loud discussion about some 'be-ache' who had done something with tattoo's boyfriend. Then she complained how the food pantry didn't "give me as much this wee". Now medicaid patients have a $3.65 copay. She was outraged over this "why do we even bother to pay insurance then if we have to give you money". Since when does welefare which is free to her count as paying insurance.


Story 2: last month lazy slob at work complaining loudly "only 4 more days and i won't have to be eating cereal" Referring to when the link cards come out. She always complains how she suffers so even though also had a smartphone and polytattoos. "So poor I can't feed my kids." Few days later she is showing around pictures of herself and babydaddy in their smurf costumes at the bar halloween party.
Let me tell you two stories that illustrate my poi... (show quote)


Why do these people upset you so?
quote=spinkick Let me tell you two stories that i... (show quote)


Because spinkick's paying for theses useless ticks that's why !!!

Reply
 
 
Nov 18, 2012 23:00:27   #
Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana
 
Vanderpix wrote:
spinkick wrote:
Let me tell you two stories that illustrate my point.
I live in a rural community that has only 1 doctor-we all know that there will be waiting-just the way it is. In the waiting room with me was a woman that worked at the Walmart, two retirees, a woman who cooks at the school bringing her father. A couple people stopped by to ask their wait time then left again we all chose to just sit. Then arrived a lazy welefare monger with her poly-tattooed friend. She 'had a terrible sore throat' yet went out 9 times to smoke. But her real reason was "to get something for my nerves. i've got terrible stress". The two were conversing loudly on their new smartphones. She began yelling at the office staff that she didn't have time to wait around she had 'things to do'. They then got into a loud discussion about some 'be-ache' who had done something with tattoo's boyfriend. Then she complained how the food pantry didn't "give me as much this wee". Now medicaid patients have a $3.65 copay. She was outraged over this "why do we even bother to pay insurance then if we have to give you money". Since when does welefare which is free to her count as paying insurance.


Story 2: last month lazy slob at work complaining loudly "only 4 more days and i won't have to be eating cereal" Referring to when the link cards come out. She always complains how she suffers so even though also had a smartphone and polytattoos. "So poor I can't feed my kids." Few days later she is showing around pictures of herself and babydaddy in their smurf costumes at the bar halloween party.
Let me tell you two stories that illustrate my poi... (show quote)


Why do these people upset you so?
quote=spinkick Let me tell you two stories that i... (show quote)


Why do they NOT upset you?

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 23:13:28   #
Vanderpix Loc: New Jersey
 
Bangee5 wrote:
Vanderpix wrote:
spinkick wrote:
Let me tell you two stories that illustrate my point.
I live in a rural community that has only 1 doctor-we all know that there will be waiting-just the way it is. In the waiting room with me was a woman that worked at the Walmart, two retirees, a woman who cooks at the school bringing her father. A couple people stopped by to ask their wait time then left again we all chose to just sit. Then arrived a lazy welefare monger with her poly-tattooed friend. She 'had a terrible sore throat' yet went out 9 times to smoke. But her real reason was "to get something for my nerves. i've got terrible stress". The two were conversing loudly on their new smartphones. She began yelling at the office staff that she didn't have time to wait around she had 'things to do'. They then got into a loud discussion about some 'be-ache' who had done something with tattoo's boyfriend. Then she complained how the food pantry didn't "give me as much this wee". Now medicaid patients have a $3.65 copay. She was outraged over this "why do we even bother to pay insurance then if we have to give you money". Since when does welefare which is free to her count as paying insurance.


Story 2: last month lazy slob at work complaining loudly "only 4 more days and i won't have to be eating cereal" Referring to when the link cards come out. She always complains how she suffers so even though also had a smartphone and polytattoos. "So poor I can't feed my kids." Few days later she is showing around pictures of herself and babydaddy in their smurf costumes at the bar halloween party.
Let me tell you two stories that illustrate my poi... (show quote)


Why do these people upset you so?
quote=spinkick Let me tell you two stories that i... (show quote)


Why do they NOT upset you?
quote=Vanderpix quote=spinkick Let me tell you t... (show quote)


Why should they? Do you really think that they are the root cause of what is wrong in this country today? Does a CEO who screws up a company and then gets a golden parachute upset you? There will always be liars cheats and thieves in all classes of society, do you think by lowering taxes they will all go away?

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 23:17:26   #
PrairieSeasons Loc: Red River of the North
 
Vanderpix wrote:
Bangee5 wrote:
Vanderpix wrote:
spinkick wrote:
Let me tell you two stories that illustrate my point.
I live in a rural community that has only 1 doctor-we all know that there will be waiting-just the way it is. In the waiting room with me was a woman that worked at the Walmart, two retirees, a woman who cooks at the school bringing her father. A couple people stopped by to ask their wait time then left again we all chose to just sit. Then arrived a lazy welefare monger with her poly-tattooed friend. She 'had a terrible sore throat' yet went out 9 times to smoke. But her real reason was "to get something for my nerves. i've got terrible stress". The two were conversing loudly on their new smartphones. She began yelling at the office staff that she didn't have time to wait around she had 'things to do'. They then got into a loud discussion about some 'be-ache' who had done something with tattoo's boyfriend. Then she complained how the food pantry didn't "give me as much this wee". Now medicaid patients have a $3.65 copay. She was outraged over this "why do we even bother to pay insurance then if we have to give you money". Since when does welefare which is free to her count as paying insurance.


Story 2: last month lazy slob at work complaining loudly "only 4 more days and i won't have to be eating cereal" Referring to when the link cards come out. She always complains how she suffers so even though also had a smartphone and polytattoos. "So poor I can't feed my kids." Few days later she is showing around pictures of herself and babydaddy in their smurf costumes at the bar halloween party.
Let me tell you two stories that illustrate my poi... (show quote)


Why do these people upset you so?
quote=spinkick Let me tell you two stories that i... (show quote)


Why do they NOT upset you?
quote=Vanderpix quote=spinkick Let me tell you t... (show quote)


Why should they? Do you really think that they are the root cause of what is wrong in this country today? Does a CEO who screws up a company and then gets a golden parachute upset you? There will always be liars cheats and thieves in all classes of society, do you think by lowering taxes they will all go away?
quote=Bangee5 quote=Vanderpix quote=spinkick Le... (show quote)


You don't seem to be posting a coherent series of thoughts. What is your point(s)?

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 23:18:56   #
Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana
 
Vanderpix wrote:
Bangee5 wrote:
Vanderpix wrote:

Why do these people upset you so?


Why do they NOT upset you?


Why should they? Do you really think that they are the root cause of what is wrong in this country today? Does a CEO who screws up a company and then gets a golden parachute upset you? There will always be liars cheats and thieves in all classes of society, do you think by lowering taxes they will all go away?


What the BLEEP are you talking about?

Reply
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