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What are the Legitimate Functions of Government ?
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Nov 18, 2012 10:53:58   #
FRENCHY Loc: Stone Mountain , Ga
 
donrent wrote:
The MAIN and #1 function of the Government is to protect its citizens...

NOT to rule them...


Absolutely thru .

:thumbup: :thumbup:

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 10:56:18   #
tschmath Loc: Los Angeles
 
PrairieSeasons wrote:
tschmath wrote:
One of the constitutionally mandated jobs of the federal government is to "promote the general welfare." For me that means making sure I have clean air to breathe and water to drink. It means making sure my food is safe. It means making sure I have health care. It means making sure that I don't live in squalor when I'm too old to work anymore. It means making sure that 10-year olds don't work in sweatshops. It means making sure that everyone has a minimal level of income from their employment. It means making sure that everyone has the right to vote. It means equal pay for equal work. It means that everyone can use the same lunch counters and schools. That to me is a large part of what the federal government is supposed to do.
One of the constitutionally mandated jobs of the f... (show quote)


Do you have any suggestions as to how we will pay for all this?
quote=tschmath One of the constitutionally mandat... (show quote)


That is what taxation is all about. How do we pay for a military if not with taxes? And making sure women are paid equal to men requires very little money. Even if you think the federal government has no place building an interstate highway system, if the states build it they still have to pay for it, hence taxes. And if you think roads shouldn't be a state concern, but a local one, they too have to tax to pay for it. Taxes are an unavoidable part of life in any society. They have been around since the Romans. Deal with it.

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 11:07:00   #
DEBJENROB Loc: DELRAY BEACH FL
 
PrairieSeasons wrote:
DEBJENROB wrote:
PrairieSeasons wrote:
tschmath wrote:
One of the constitutionally mandated jobs of the federal government is to "promote the general welfare." For me that means making sure I have clean air to breathe and water to drink. It means making sure my food is safe. It means making sure I have health care. It means making sure that I don't live in squalor when I'm too old to work anymore. It means making sure that 10-year olds don't work in sweatshops. It means making sure that everyone has a minimal level of income from their employment. It means making sure that everyone has the right to vote. It means equal pay for equal work. It means that everyone can use the same lunch counters and schools. That to me is a large part of what the federal government is supposed to do.
One of the constitutionally mandated jobs of the f... (show quote)


Do you have any suggestions as to how we will pay for all this?
quote=tschmath One of the constitutionally mandat... (show quote)


How do we not pay for it .....
quote=PrairieSeasons quote=tschmath One of the c... (show quote)


That's easy. We continue to run up the national credit card to the point that our creditors refuse more and then we hit a brick wall. I was hoping for suggestions as to how to avoid that.
quote=DEBJENROB quote=PrairieSeasons quote=tsch... (show quote)


Actually the answer is simple ..... increase taxes or those who could be afford .... why go back to the rates under Bill Clinton ..... lets go back to the rates under Ronald Reagan .... yes ... we have to reduce spending .... how about national health care .... put medical personal on salary with incentives for keeping their patients healthy .... how about investing in education so that we can grow the economy and increase GDP .... remember it is not how much we owe but what the ratio of debt to GDP is ... I could go on and on .... but it will not make a difference .....

Reply
 
 
Nov 18, 2012 11:12:23   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
Richard94611 wrote:
The heading really says it. So many correspondents in this forum have differing views on what are or should be the legitimate functions of government, I'm interested in what you think these functions should be.


The most basic functions of government are to provide for:

1. its own survival.

2. security from domestic and foreign threats.

3. economic supremacy of those with political power.

4. enough force and/or economic placation of people with little or no political power to keep them from revolting.

5. whatever else the political elite deem important.

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 11:20:37   #
Bmac Loc: Long Island, NY
 
DEBJENROB wrote:
how about investing in education so that we can grow the economy and increase GDP


Now there is a novel idea, investing in education. I though that was already being done, my school taxes would make your toes curl. What is needed in education is for kids to go to school and for them to have a family unit to support them. Raising the salaries of teachers and administrators has not improved test scores nor education. 8-)

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Nov 18, 2012 11:21:16   #
Ront53 Loc: Maryland
 
Again, it is to protect the citizens. The interstate highway system was started by Eisenhower modeled from the German Autobahn in order to move the military from one point to another rapidly. It just so happens that now it moves civilians from one point to another quicker than using back roads. If we ever have a conflict in this country, that the military has to move, watch how quickly it will be shut down to private vehicles. In Maryland and Delaware, I-95 is a toll road run by the states. Everyone know that taxes are necessary, but having that money pissed away is not suppose to happen.

tschmath wrote:
PrairieSeasons wrote:
tschmath wrote:
One of the constitutionally mandated jobs of the federal government is to "promote the general welfare." For me that means making sure I have clean air to breathe and water to drink. It means making sure my food is safe. It means making sure I have health care. It means making sure that I don't live in squalor when I'm too old to work anymore. It means making sure that 10-year olds don't work in sweatshops. It means making sure that everyone has a minimal level of income from their employment. It means making sure that everyone has the right to vote. It means equal pay for equal work. It means that everyone can use the same lunch counters and schools. That to me is a large part of what the federal government is supposed to do.
One of the constitutionally mandated jobs of the f... (show quote)


Do you have any suggestions as to how we will pay for all this?
quote=tschmath One of the constitutionally mandat... (show quote)


That is what taxation is all about. How do we pay for a military if not with taxes? And making sure women are paid equal to men requires very little money. Even if you think the federal government has no place building an interstate highway system, if the states build it they still have to pay for it, hence taxes. And if you think roads shouldn't be a state concern, but a local one, they too have to tax to pay for it. Taxes are an unavoidable part of life in any society. They have been around since the Romans. Deal with it.
quote=PrairieSeasons quote=tschmath One of the c... (show quote)

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 11:21:44   #
Remoman Loc: Someplace Remote Near LA
 
PNagy wrote:
Richard94611 wrote:
The heading really says it. So many correspondents in this forum have differing views on what are or should be the legitimate functions of government, I'm interested in what you think these functions should be.


The most basic functions of government are to provide for:

1. its own survival.

2. security from domestic and foreign threats.

3. economic supremacy of those with political power.

4. enough force and/or economic placation of people with little or no political power to keep them from revolting.

5. whatever else the political elite deem important.
quote=Richard94611 The heading really says it. S... (show quote)


Sounds a whole lot like China to me.

Reply
 
 
Nov 18, 2012 11:23:16   #
PrairieSeasons Loc: Red River of the North
 
DEBJENROB wrote:
PrairieSeasons wrote:
DEBJENROB wrote:
PrairieSeasons wrote:
tschmath wrote:
One of the constitutionally mandated jobs of the federal government is to "promote the general welfare." For me that means making sure I have clean air to breathe and water to drink. It means making sure my food is safe. It means making sure I have health care. It means making sure that I don't live in squalor when I'm too old to work anymore. It means making sure that 10-year olds don't work in sweatshops. It means making sure that everyone has a minimal level of income from their employment. It means making sure that everyone has the right to vote. It means equal pay for equal work. It means that everyone can use the same lunch counters and schools. That to me is a large part of what the federal government is supposed to do.
One of the constitutionally mandated jobs of the f... (show quote)


Do you have any suggestions as to how we will pay for all this?
quote=tschmath One of the constitutionally mandat... (show quote)


How do we not pay for it .....
quote=PrairieSeasons quote=tschmath One of the c... (show quote)


That's easy. We continue to run up the national credit card to the point that our creditors refuse more and then we hit a brick wall. I was hoping for suggestions as to how to avoid that.
quote=DEBJENROB quote=PrairieSeasons quote=tsch... (show quote)


Actually the answer is simple ..... increase taxes or those who could be afford .... why go back to the rates under Bill Clinton ..... lets go back to the rates under Ronald Reagan .... yes ... we have to reduce spending .... how about national health care .... put medical personal on salary with incentives for keeping their patients healthy .... how about investing in education so that we can grow the economy and increase GDP .... remember it is not how much we owe but what the ratio of debt to GDP is ... I could go on and on .... but it will not make a difference .....
quote=PrairieSeasons quote=DEBJENROB quote=Prai... (show quote)


Great sentimental response. Unfortunately the math doesn't work.

The national government is borrowing 35% of what it spends. A trillion dollars per year. It will not be possible to raise a trillion dollars per year in taxes. In fact, the president's proposals will raise $1.6 trillion over TEN YEARS. That's $160 billion per year along with a lot of assumptions that that rate of taxation won't crater the economy.

We still need hundreds of billions per year in cost reductions in order to avoid the true financial armageddon in front of us. (And I'm not talking about the fiscal cliff on Jan 1 - that is relatively minor in comparison to what will happen if we don't manage better).

The longer we wait to balance the budget the more difficult and painful it will be. If we wait long enough, we won't have to worry about how to do it, that will be decided by others.

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 11:25:11   #
Photogdog Loc: New Kensington, PA
 
Richard94611 wrote:
The heading really says it. So many correspondents in this forum have differing views on what are or should be the legitimate functions of government, I'm interested in what you think these functions should be.


Maybe I'm off the mark here but I believe the founding fathers intended that the individual states take care of their citizens rights and the federal government was to be minimzed, maintain national security (using a collective state's militia) and deal with foreign policy.

I think the whole idea was to minimize a centralized federal government after winning their freedom from a tyrannical monocracy that taxed the hell out of them and passed whatever laws it wanted whenever it suited their purposes (does any of this sound familiar?).

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 11:27:18   #
amyinsparta Loc: White county, TN
 
PNagy wrote:
Richard94611 wrote:
The heading really says it. So many correspondents in this forum have differing views on what are or should be the legitimate functions of government, I'm interested in what you think these functions should be.


The most basic functions of government are to provide for:

1. its own survival.

2. security from domestic and foreign threats.

3. economic supremacy of those with political power.

4. enough force and/or economic placation of people with little or no political power to keep them from revolting.

5. whatever else the political elite deem important.
quote=Richard94611 The heading really says it. S... (show quote)


AMEN BROTHER, AMEN!!!!!!!!!

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 11:32:02   #
Vanderpix Loc: New Jersey
 
Would a true government by the people, for the people, and of the people ever rule?

Reply
 
 
Nov 18, 2012 11:42:53   #
UP-2-IT Loc: RED STICK, LA
 
Richard94611 wrote:
The heading really says it. So many correspondents in this forum have differing views on what are or should be the legitimate functions of government, I'm interested in what you think these functions should be.


You sure found a way to see which side of the bread is buttered for most of the folks here. :thumbup:

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 11:51:00   #
Bmac Loc: Long Island, NY
 
Vanderpix wrote:
Would a true government by the people, for the people, and of the people ever rule?


I think that would be called a dictatorship. 8-)

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 12:02:33   #
DEBJENROB Loc: DELRAY BEACH FL
 
PrairieSeasons wrote:
DEBJENROB wrote:
PrairieSeasons wrote:
DEBJENROB wrote:
PrairieSeasons wrote:
tschmath wrote:
One of the constitutionally mandated jobs of the federal government is to "promote the general welfare." For me that means making sure I have clean air to breathe and water to drink. It means making sure my food is safe. It means making sure I have health care. It means making sure that I don't live in squalor when I'm too old to work anymore. It means making sure that 10-year olds don't work in sweatshops. It means making sure that everyone has a minimal level of income from their employment. It means making sure that everyone has the right to vote. It means equal pay for equal work. It means that everyone can use the same lunch counters and schools. That to me is a large part of what the federal government is supposed to do.
One of the constitutionally mandated jobs of the f... (show quote)


Do you have any suggestions as to how we will pay for all this?
quote=tschmath One of the constitutionally mandat... (show quote)


How do we not pay for it .....
quote=PrairieSeasons quote=tschmath One of the c... (show quote)


That's easy. We continue to run up the national credit card to the point that our creditors refuse more and then we hit a brick wall. I was hoping for suggestions as to how to avoid that.
quote=DEBJENROB quote=PrairieSeasons quote=tsch... (show quote)


Actually the answer is simple ..... increase taxes or those who could be afford .... why go back to the rates under Bill Clinton ..... lets go back to the rates under Ronald Reagan .... yes ... we have to reduce spending .... how about national health care .... put medical personal on salary with incentives for keeping their patients healthy .... how about investing in education so that we can grow the economy and increase GDP .... remember it is not how much we owe but what the ratio of debt to GDP is ... I could go on and on .... but it will not make a difference .....
quote=PrairieSeasons quote=DEBJENROB quote=Prai... (show quote)


Great sentimental response. Unfortunately the math doesn't work.

The national government is borrowing 35% of what it spends. A trillion dollars per year. It will not be possible to raise a trillion dollars per year in taxes. In fact, the president's proposals will raise $1.6 trillion over TEN YEARS. That's $160 billion per year along with a lot of assumptions that that rate of taxation won't crater the economy.

We still need hundreds of billions per year in cost reductions in order to avoid the true financial armageddon in front of us. (And I'm not talking about the fiscal cliff on Jan 1 - that is relatively minor in comparison to what will happen if we don't manage better).

The longer we wait to balance the budget the more difficult and painful it will be. If we wait long enough, we won't have to worry about how to do it, that will be decided by others.
quote=DEBJENROB quote=PrairieSeasons quote=DEBJ... (show quote)


That is a canned answer ..... I did not refer to the Presidents plan .... I said go back to the tax rates of the Reagan years ..... and also allow only the deductions allowed during those years ....

Reply
Nov 18, 2012 12:08:23   #
Bmac Loc: Long Island, NY
 
DEBJENROB wrote:
.... I said go back to the tax rates of the Reagan years ..... and also allow only the deductions allowed during those years ....


Are you trying to say, raise taxes on the rich? This fellow would not have agreed with you not that long ago.

Obama On Taxes - Interview with NBC News's Chuck Todd on August 5, 2009

Todd: Let me jump to another topic, Scott Ferguson, he’s upset about taxes, he says: “Explain how raising taxes on anyone during a deep recession is going to help with the economy.” And he actually wants to you look at historical markers where this has been — you say, you know, where this has been a helpful thing coming out of a recession.

Obama: Well, first of all, he is right. Normally, you don’t raise taxes in a recession, which is why we haven’t and why we have instead cut taxes. So I guess what I would say to Scott is his economics are right, you don’t raise taxes in a recession. We haven’t raised taxes in a recession. We don’t have a…

Todd: But you might for health care. You might for the highest — for some of the wealthiest.

Obama: The — we have not proposed a tax hike for the wealthy that would take effect in the middle of a recession. Even the proposals that have come out of Congress, which, by the way, were different from the proposals I put forward, still wouldn’t kick in until after the recession was over.
So he is absolutely right, the last thing you want to do is to raise taxes in the middle of a recession because that would just suck up — take more demand out of the economy and put businesses in a further hole.

Reply
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