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Oct 5, 2022 12:28:15   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
Is it a child? Or is it a choice?

“Primum non nocere” i.e. non-malefiecence, which is derived from this maxim, is one of the principal precepts of bioethics which all medical students are taught in their academic training and is a fundamental principle of applied medicine throughout the world.

This pillar of bioethics a.k.a. the Hippocratic Oath includes a promise to abstain from doing harm i.e. “first do no harm”.

Within the original Hippocratic Oath (c. 400 bc) translation from Greek by Francis Adams (1849) one finds this passage… “I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in a like manner I will not give to a women a pessary to produce abortion…”.

The Hippocratic Oath as been and remains a beacon of ethical behavior transcending virtually every governmental and religious institution in western civilization and widely embraced.

Is it a child? Or is it a choice?

An ethical dilemma or ethical paradox is a decision-making problem between two possible moral imperatives, neither of which is unambiguously acceptable or preferable. The complexity arises out of the situational conflict in which obeying one would result in transgressing another.

To this end I might suggest having empathy (praying) for the innocent who have no voice…

Illumination for both above images: Off Camera SB700 w/ Shoot Through Translucent Umbrella

Is it a child? Or is it a choice?
Is it a child? Or is it a choice?...
(Download)

Is it a child? Or is it a choice?
Is it a child? Or is it a choice?...
(Download)

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Oct 5, 2022 12:32:48   #
ken_stern Loc: Yorba Linda, Ca
 
Well Said
&
Well Done

Thanks for posting.

Reply
Oct 5, 2022 13:18:38   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I wonder if doctors still take the Hippocratic Oath or if they have migrated to the Hypocritic Oath.

As for the choice or child question, the choice was made well before the conception happened.
--Bob
Thomas902 wrote:
Is it a child? Or is it a choice?

“Primum non nocere” i.e. non-malefiecence, which is derived from this maxim, is one of the principal precepts of bioethics which all medical students are taught in their academic training and is a fundamental principle of applied medicine throughout the world.

This pillar of bioethics a.k.a. the Hippocratic Oath includes a promise to abstain from doing harm i.e. “first do no harm”.

Within the original Hippocratic Oath (c. 400 bc) translation from Greek by Francis Adams (1849) one finds this passage… “I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in a like manner I will not give to a women a pessary to produce abortion…”.

The Hippocratic Oath as been and remains a beacon of ethical behavior transcending virtually every governmental and religious institution in western civilization and widely embraced.

Is it a child? Or is it a choice?

An ethical dilemma or ethical paradox is a decision-making problem between two possible moral imperatives, neither of which is unambiguously acceptable or preferable. The complexity arises out of the situational conflict in which obeying one would result in transgressing another.

To this end I might suggest having empathy (praying) for the innocent who have no voice…

Illumination for both above images: Off Camera SB700 w/ Shoot Through Translucent Umbrella
Is it a child? Or is it a choice? br br “Primum n... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Oct 5, 2022 14:23:40   #
tramsey Loc: Texas
 
Thanks for your thoughts - Good post

Reply
Oct 5, 2022 21:49:51   #
MattPhox Loc: Rhode Island
 
Good post.

Reply
Oct 6, 2022 07:44:50   #
raymondh Loc: Walker, MI
 
Present this question to a pro choicer: Going back to a few months before you were born, please describe the amount of pain you would have experienced when the life was being sucked out of you because your mother made a different decision.

Reply
Oct 6, 2022 07:58:13   #
infocus Loc: Australia
 
Thomas902 wrote:
Is it a child? Or is it a choice?

“Primum non nocere” i.e. non-malefiecence, which is derived from this maxim, is one of the principal precepts of bioethics which all medical students are taught in their academic training and is a fundamental principle of applied medicine throughout the world.

This pillar of bioethics a.k.a. the Hippocratic Oath includes a promise to abstain from doing harm i.e. “first do no harm”.

Within the original Hippocratic Oath (c. 400 bc) translation from Greek by Francis Adams (1849) one finds this passage… “I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in a like manner I will not give to a women a pessary to produce abortion…”.

The Hippocratic Oath as been and remains a beacon of ethical behavior transcending virtually every governmental and religious institution in western civilization and widely embraced.

Is it a child? Or is it a choice?

An ethical dilemma or ethical paradox is a decision-making problem between two possible moral imperatives, neither of which is unambiguously acceptable or preferable. The complexity arises out of the situational conflict in which obeying one would result in transgressing another.

To this end I might suggest having empathy (praying) for the innocent who have no voice…

Illumination for both above images: Off Camera SB700 w/ Shoot Through Translucent Umbrella
Is it a child? Or is it a choice? br br “Primum n... (show quote)


I won't get involved in the moral, ethical, religious question you raised. Because I have very strong views that I am not willing to debate in an Open Forum with people I have never met.
Having said that I love both images Thomas. You're a much better photographer then I could ever hope to be but the second image is spoiled for me because I can see the reflection of your transparent umbrellas in the child's eyes.
sorry to be critical of someone much better at this craft than I am - it's just mu opinion.

Reply
 
 
Oct 6, 2022 08:04:46   #
Stephan G
 
raymondh wrote:
Present this question to a pro choicer: Going back to a few months before you were born, please describe the amount of pain you would have experienced when the life was being sucked out of you because your mother made a different decision.


The question is illogical. The dead tell no tales.

The question is also illogical in many other ways.

Another to add to the "Yes or no, did you stop beating your spouse?" basket.

Reply
Oct 6, 2022 09:42:52   #
Dannj
 
I love the first photo. In the second, the reflection (umbrella?) in the baby’s eyes is a distraction.

Reply
Oct 6, 2022 09:43:26   #
Michael1079 Loc: Indiana
 
Thomas, this was a very thought-provoking piece. The images display your creative talents beautifully. Keep up the amazing work!

Reply
Oct 6, 2022 09:54:21   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
raymondh and infocus thank you both so much for your poignant thoughts here they are deeply appreciated.
Please realize I'm only the messenger here... I have no agenda nor do I expect/hope to influence others on this forum. As mentioned this is a very sensitive and complex issue that most simply do not want to become involved and for very logical and relevant reasons...

That said I was forced to confront this head on several years ago... How? My associate and colleague (a former fashion model) I had collaborated with for several years had asked me for help/assistance on her academic journey. She remembered I was a chem major during my years at a university en-route to my bachelor's degree in science (she was struggling with her prerequisites needed for admittance to program to become an RN (registered nurse)).

I gladly accepted this challenge and became so intrigued with her journey that I accompanied her for the next four years until she passed her NCLEX-RN exam... She graduated at the top of her class and was immediately hired by her local hospital as an RN in their ICU.

Fast forward 3 years ago... Here is the pretty much the same query I posted the UHH "Attic" which generated 10 pages of "discussion"?

I'm posted it here again in it much of the same form.
btw, as others have stated there are never answers to paradoxes, they are never resolved successfully.
Just like Stephan G post "Support for our friends and relatives under attack." War is never a logical means to resolve conflict, yet they have existed since the time of recorded history... "How many deaths will it take until we know that too many people have died"

Here is my initial post in response to "The GOP roars about abortion. Then they abandon the children" in the Attic on May 4 2020.

Reproductive Rights

Labor and delivery nurses (L&D), also known as obstetric nurses (OB), are an integral part of the care team responsible for caring for the pregnant patient and child. Maybe ask them for their true feelings here.

An obstetrician is a doctor who specializes in pregnancy, childbirth, and a woman's reproductive system. Although other doctors can deliver babies, many women see an obstetrician, also called an OB/GYN. Maybe ask them for their true feelings here.

As an important step in becoming a Doctor, medical students must take the Hippocratic Oath. One of the promises within that oath is "first, do no harm" (or "primum non nocere," the Latin translation from the original Greek.) Also contained within the Hippocratic Oath is a promise “…”I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion…”

What is a paradox? A seemingly absurd or self-contradictory statement or proposition that when investigated or explained may actually prove to be well founded or true.

There in you may find answers here…

Reproductive rights include your legal ability to make decisions about when and if you have a child. You might also hear this called reproductive autonomy. It means you have the power of the law to protect you and allow you the right to make your own choices about birth control, pregnancy, and having children.

Btw, my best friend for many years is a Critical Care Nurse in her hospital’s ICU… Some of the horrors she routinely leaves work with would rip the heart out of a lesser soul.. Yet she has come to terms with the brutal truth that her true mission is to ferry the helpless and hopeless out of harms way using every possible skill in collaboration with whatever teamwork is available…

Best advice? Be a fly on the wall in the hospital room during a Code Blue… i.e. Rapid Response Team effort… Then and possibly only then you might find a somewhat different perspective on your own mission purpose during your brief existence here on Terra Firma.

Wishing all here excellent health and much happiness…

"...primum non nocere..."

Reply
 
 
Nov 28, 2022 00:33:20   #
Shutter Guy Loc: New York
 
I do not wish to take away from the awesome beauty of this mother and child so I will not comment on the political/philosophical aspect of new life. I will only say, thank you, for sharing this exceptional rendition of maternal love with us.

Reply
Nov 28, 2022 07:57:50   #
Stephan G
 
Thomas902 wrote:
raymondh and infocus thank you both so much for your poignant thoughts here they are deeply appreciated.
Please realize I'm only the messenger here... I have no agenda nor do I expect/hope to influence others on this forum. As mentioned this is a very sensitive and complex issue that most simply do not want to become involved and for very logical and relevant reasons...

That said I was forced to confront this head on several years ago... How? My associate and colleague (a former fashion model) I had collaborated with for several years had asked me for help/assistance on her academic journey. She remembered I was a chem major during my years at a university en-route to my bachelor's degree in science (she was struggling with her prerequisites needed for admittance to program to become an RN (registered nurse)).

I gladly accepted this challenge and became so intrigued with her journey that I accompanied her for the next four years until she passed her NCLEX-RN exam... She graduated at the top of her class and was immediately hired by her local hospital as an RN in their ICU.

Fast forward 3 years ago... Here is the pretty much the same query I posted the UHH "Attic" which generated 10 pages of "discussion"?

I'm posted it here again in it much of the same form.
btw, as others have stated there are never answers to paradoxes, they are never resolved successfully.
Just like Stephan G post "Support for our friends and relatives under attack." War is never a logical means to resolve conflict, yet they have existed since the time of recorded history... "How many deaths will it take until we know that too many people have died"

Here is my initial post in response to "The GOP roars about abortion. Then they abandon the children" in the Attic on May 4 2020.

Reproductive Rights

Labor and delivery nurses (L&D), also known as obstetric nurses (OB), are an integral part of the care team responsible for caring for the pregnant patient and child. Maybe ask them for their true feelings here.

An obstetrician is a doctor who specializes in pregnancy, childbirth, and a woman's reproductive system. Although other doctors can deliver babies, many women see an obstetrician, also called an OB/GYN. Maybe ask them for their true feelings here.

As an important step in becoming a Doctor, medical students must take the Hippocratic Oath. One of the promises within that oath is "first, do no harm" (or "primum non nocere," the Latin translation from the original Greek.) Also contained within the Hippocratic Oath is a promise “…”I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion…”

What is a paradox? A seemingly absurd or self-contradictory statement or proposition that when investigated or explained may actually prove to be well founded or true.

There in you may find answers here…

Reproductive rights include your legal ability to make decisions about when and if you have a child. You might also hear this called reproductive autonomy. It means you have the power of the law to protect you and allow you the right to make your own choices about birth control, pregnancy, and having children.

Btw, my best friend for many years is a Critical Care Nurse in her hospital’s ICU… Some of the horrors she routinely leaves work with would rip the heart out of a lesser soul.. Yet she has come to terms with the brutal truth that her true mission is to ferry the helpless and hopeless out of harms way using every possible skill in collaboration with whatever teamwork is available…

Best advice? Be a fly on the wall in the hospital room during a Code Blue… i.e. Rapid Response Team effort… Then and possibly only then you might find a somewhat different perspective on your own mission purpose during your brief existence here on Terra Firma.

Wishing all here excellent health and much happiness…

"...primum non nocere..."
raymondh and infocus thank you both so much for yo... (show quote)


"Be a fly on the wall"-?

The inferred questions are not germane to the issue(s) of photography. The questions rely on emotional attachments better addressed in philosophy arenas.

Why not include the photo of the dead six year old boy laying on top of the body of his father in the middle of the road. He tried to protect his father. Again not germane to the topic of photography.

Strictly on the two photographs presented, they are good shots of the subject matter. However, I find it difficult to correlate the baby with the mother. I have viewed recent births in which the child was a larger mass than anticipated. Often they were C-section births. My children and some of their children were C-section births. With my children their heads would not fit the cervix opening. This was a well worked out answer to the situation presented.

Shot 1. I have not viewed mothers holding their child as a sack of potatoes. It is the view left in mind when I looked at the shot. I think that the shapes would had to be taken in consideration.

Shot 2. I found the reflected light in the child's eyes to be disconcerting. I feel that the pattern claims focus over the child's face. (I admit that I am somewhat 'old fashioned' in that.)

Reply
Nov 28, 2022 08:15:51   #
Stephan G
 
Thomas902 wrote:
Is it a child? Or is it a choice?

“Primum non nocere” i.e. non-malefiecence, which is derived from this maxim, is one of the principal precepts of bioethics which all medical students are taught in their academic training and is a fundamental principle of applied medicine throughout the world.

This pillar of bioethics a.k.a. the Hippocratic Oath includes a promise to abstain from doing harm i.e. “first do no harm”.

Within the original Hippocratic Oath (c. 400 bc) translation from Greek by Francis Adams (1849) one finds this passage… “I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in a like manner I will not give to a women a pessary to produce abortion…”.

The Hippocratic Oath as been and remains a beacon of ethical behavior transcending virtually every governmental and religious institution in western civilization and widely embraced.

Is it a child? Or is it a choice?

An ethical dilemma or ethical paradox is a decision-making problem between two possible moral imperatives, neither of which is unambiguously acceptable or preferable. The complexity arises out of the situational conflict in which obeying one would result in transgressing another.

To this end I might suggest having empathy (praying) for the innocent who have no voice…

Illumination for both above images: Off Camera SB700 w/ Shoot Through Translucent Umbrella
Is it a child? Or is it a choice? br br “Primum n... (show quote)


To me, the actual question is "Is this a life? Or a choice?" We should not ignore the next 16-18 years.

PS., If we need to refer to Ancient Greeks for direction, we have to know what the Greek mind was at that time. The Spartans, for example, did throw their excess births into the rivers. Also the misfit and lame.

Reply
Dec 11, 2022 10:24:07   #
gym Loc: Athens, Georgia
 
If we as a society have reached the point where, as some have proposed, we should be able to "abort" AFTER there has been a successful birth, then we are legalizing the taking of a life which is now a part of our living/breathing environment, but who has not committed a crime worthy of such a punishment. So - if we can do that, then why restrict it to shortly after birth? Why not make it 3 years after birth, or even 18 years? After all, 18 is now the "legal age". By setting the limit to abort at such a late term, it would also serve as a deterrent to bad behavior. If you're a 17 year old, and you know your mom can still "abort you", then you might think twice before committing an error for which you know she will not approve.
I'm just sayin'..........:-)

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