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Video for DSLR and Point and Shoot Cameras
D850 video settings (handheld with moving subject)
Sep 3, 2022 22:09:18   #
Alphabravo2020
 
I attempted a bit of video at a recent show and was not successful. I am going to try again at a shoot tomorrow and would love any shared experiences.

I had rented a Nikon 58mm f1.4G to shoot a stage performance. Hand-held. Decent subject/background separation distance but ambient light.

Looking at the metadata from a short clip reports the following regarding AF and exposure:

Auto Focus : On
Focus Mode : AF-F
AF Area Mode : Contrast-detect (wide area)
Phase Detect AF : Off
Primary AF Point : (none)
AF Points Used : (none)
AF Image Width : 8256
AF Image Height : 4640
AF Area X Position : 4128
AF Area Y Position : 2320
AF Area Width : 870
AF Area Height : 735

Shutter Speed : 1/125
Frame Rate : 59.94

ISO : 1008
ISO Expansion : Off
ISO2 : 1008
ISO Expansion 2 : Off

Aperture : 1.4

Attempting self diagnosis, I will say that the video definitely did not like handholding. I can see the camera lose focus each time there is a camera movement. Also I suppose that noise from the rather elevated ISO made it difficult on the phase detect AF system. Also I'd say that the wide aperture made for a soft focus and difficulty in finding the focal plane, once lost.

This time I am going to use the Tamron 45mm which I think will be more idiot proof. Solo subject moving toward and away. Still handholding but more light (full daylight) for hopefully less noise, and narrow the aperture for deeper field.

The final component is the AF setting which I have been studying but not entirely understanding.

TIA



Reply
Sep 4, 2022 09:12:51   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
Alphabravo2020 wrote:
I attempted a bit of video at a recent show and was not successful. I am going to try again at a shoot tomorrow and would love any shared experiences.

I had rented a Nikon 58mm f1.4G to shoot a stage performance. Hand-held. Decent subject/background separation distance but ambient light.

Looking at the metadata from a short clip reports the following regarding AF and exposure:

Auto Focus : On
Focus Mode : AF-F
AF Area Mode : Contrast-detect (wide area)
Phase Detect AF : Off
Primary AF Point : (none)
AF Points Used : (none)
AF Image Width : 8256
AF Image Height : 4640
AF Area X Position : 4128
AF Area Y Position : 2320
AF Area Width : 870
AF Area Height : 735

Shutter Speed : 1/125
Frame Rate : 59.94

ISO : 1008
ISO Expansion : Off
ISO2 : 1008
ISO Expansion 2 : Off

Aperture : 1.4

Attempting self diagnosis, I will say that the video definitely did not like handholding. I can see the camera lose focus each time there is a camera movement. Also I suppose that noise from the rather elevated ISO made it difficult on the phase detect AF system. Also I'd say that the wide aperture made for a soft focus and difficulty in finding the focal plane, once lost.

This time I am going to use the Tamron 45mm which I think will be more idiot proof. Solo subject moving toward and away. Still handholding but more light (full daylight) for hopefully less noise, and narrow the aperture for deeper field.

The final component is the AF setting which I have been studying but not entirely understanding.

TIA
I attempted a bit of video at a recent show and wa... (show quote)


My response when you had this in another section is gone after you moved the discussion to this one. I'll respond again.

It's a dirty little secret that Nikon DSLRs are lousy for video. The one exception is the D780. The mirror must be up to shoot video. When the mirror is up, these cameras use contrast detection autofocus instead of the faster phase detection you get when the mirror is down. Contrast detection in these cameras is slow and hunts (visibly) when the subject moves or when you move the camera. If you are in a situation where you can set the focus, then you can get good video. The D780 has a hybrid sensor that uses phase detection autofocus when shooting video.

One other thing is that you have to hold the camera away from you to see the screen when shooting video. Holding a heavy, unsupported camera away from you is going to make for shaky video. Things to look into might be a monopod, tripod, gimbal stabilizers and body harnesses.

Or if video is really important to you, look into cameras that are better for it, mirrorless or even a semi-professional video camera. (The consumer grade camcorders are fine for casual use, but they have tiny sensors that are somewhat limiting.)

Reply
Sep 4, 2022 10:35:58   #
bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA
 
If you are going to do a lot of video, you need some new gear! If not, and assuming you have a relatively recent and capable smartphone, consider using it for video. They are very good at it! Because they are small and a little hard to hold steady, consider a gimbal made for phones. The $100 DJI OSMO 4 is a very good example.

The problem with using a phone is the credibility factor. Anyone seen carrying a big black Nikon is assumed to be an expert. Anyone using a phone is assumed to be unprepared, under equipped and not very knowledgeable.

Reply
 
 
Sep 4, 2022 12:57:34   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
bsprague wrote:
If you are going to do a lot of video, you need some new gear! If not, and assuming you have a relatively recent and capable smartphone, consider using it for video. They are very good at it! Because they are small and a little hard to hold steady, consider a gimbal made for phones. The $100 DJI OSMO 4 is a very good example.

The problem with using a phone is the credibility factor. Anyone seen carrying a big black Nikon is assumed to be an expert. Anyone using a phone is assumed to be unprepared, under equipped and not very knowledgeable.
If you are going to do a lot of video, you need so... (show quote)


I agree about cell phone video except when idiots hold the phone vertically when they take it.

Reply
Sep 4, 2022 13:17:04   #
Alphabravo2020
 
therwol wrote:
My response when you had this in another section is gone after you moved the discussion to this one. I'll respond again.

It's a dirty little secret that Nikon DSLRs are lousy for video. The one exception is the D780. The mirror must be up to shoot video. When the mirror is up, these cameras use contrast detection autofocus instead of the faster phase detection you get when the mirror is down. Contrast detection in these cameras is slow and hunts (visibly) when the subject moves or when you move the camera. If you are in a situation where you can set the focus, then you can get good video. The D780 has a hybrid sensor that uses phase detection autofocus when shooting video.

One other thing is that you have to hold the camera away from you to see the screen when shooting video. Holding a heavy, unsupported camera away from you is going to make for shaky video. Things to look into might be a monopod, tripod, gimbal stabilizers and body harnesses.

Or if video is really important to you, look into cameras that are better for it, mirrorless or even a semi-professional video camera. (The consumer grade camcorders are fine for casual use, but they have tiny sensors that are somewhat limiting.)
My response when you had this in another section i... (show quote)


I saw that. I appreciate the extension here.

Lately I have appreciated the grainy look, natural lighting, and open aperture of films like Gilliam's Jabberwocky and Kubrick's FMJ. Unfortunately, these preferences all play havoc with autofocus systems. Amazing that so many films I guess are shot with manual focus.

I'm definitely looking into a second camera for film/video.

Edit: The Nikon D850 autofocus really is a dirty little secret. I would still get the D850 for what I do but I was surely disappointed at the AF response in video and even in stills of moving subjects.

Reply
Sep 4, 2022 13:45:28   #
bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA
 
Alphabravo2020 wrote:
I saw that. I appreciate the extension here.

Lately I have appreciated the grainy look, natural lighting, and open aperture of films like Gilliam's Jabberwocky and Kubrick's FMJ. Unfortunately, these preferences all play havoc with autofocus systems. Amazing that so many films I guess are shot with manual focus.

I'm definitely looking into a second camera for film/video.

Edit: The Nikon D850 autofocus really is a dirty little secret. I would still get the D850 for what I do but I was surely disappointed at the AF response in video and even in stills of moving subjects.
I saw that. I appreciate the extension here. br ... (show quote)


"I'm definitely looking into a second camera for film/video."

Consumer grade video was done with hold in your palm "camcorders" a dozen years ago. I have one I bought then. Then it moved into mirrorless hybrids, largely from Sony and Panasonic. "Palmcorders" are declining in choices as more "mirrorless" cambers come into play.

The most interesting (and my favorite now) is the $500 DJI Pocket 2 Creators Combo kit. It weirdly solves most of the video problems. It has a gimbaled head that gets rid of shake, video's worst enemy. The gimbaled head has buffers that make pan and tilt transitions smooth. And, if bad audio is video's second enemy, it solves that with an included wireless mic system. You can enhance the shooting controls with a connection to any smartphone. There is an optional boom pole for jib and other creative shots.

The primary problem with the Pocket 2 is only that the operator looks really geeky when shooting with it!

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Sep 4, 2022 16:26:24   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
Alphabravo2020 wrote:
Amazing that so many films I guess are shot with manual focus.


This shouldn't be a surprise. Autofocus didn't come into being until the 1970s. Even with available autofocus, most movies and videos at a professional level are still shot with manual focus. Knowing where to set the focus for each scene takes great skill. The cinematographer exercises absolute control over how the film/video comes out, and that also includes setting the exposure for each scene. You don't want the camera to change the exposure just because someone with a bright shirt walks into the scene. If you develop the skills to shoot the way it is done professionally, you can make great video with a DSLR. I don't have time for it when I want to pick up something on short notice to shoot video of my grandchildren on a playground.

Reply
 
 
Sep 4, 2022 16:54:35   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
bsprague wrote:
"I'm definitely looking into a second camera for film/video."

Consumer grade video was done with hold in your palm "camcorders" a dozen years ago. I have one I bought then.


I have a consumer grade Sony HD camcorder from about 9 years ago. It takes acceptable video when lighting conditions are good. It fails miserably in dim light. The results are "grainy" and lacking detail. I'm looking into something else. My own D850 fails miserably when autofocus is used. I appreciate your suggestions.

Reply
Sep 5, 2022 16:35:46   #
Chicago312 Loc: Western suburb, Chicago
 
Alphabravo2020 wrote:
I attempted a bit of video at a recent show and was not successful. I am going to try again at a shoot tomorrow and would love any shared experiences.

I had rented a Nikon 58mm f1.4G to shoot a stage performance. Hand-held. Decent subject/background separation distance but ambient light.

Looking at the metadata from a short clip reports the following regarding AF and exposure:

Auto Focus : On
Focus Mode : AF-F
AF Area Mode : Contrast-detect (wide area)
Phase Detect AF : Off
Primary AF Point : (none)
AF Points Used : (none)
AF Image Width : 8256
AF Image Height : 4640
AF Area X Position : 4128
AF Area Y Position : 2320
AF Area Width : 870
AF Area Height : 735

Shutter Speed : 1/125
Frame Rate : 59.94

ISO : 1008
ISO Expansion : Off
ISO2 : 1008
ISO Expansion 2 : Off

Aperture : 1.4

Attempting self diagnosis, I will say that the video definitely did not like handholding. I can see the camera lose focus each time there is a camera movement. Also I suppose that noise from the rather elevated ISO made it difficult on the phase detect AF system. Also I'd say that the wide aperture made for a soft focus and difficulty in finding the focal plane, once lost.

This time I am going to use the Tamron 45mm which I think will be more idiot proof. Solo subject moving toward and away. Still handholding but more light (full daylight) for hopefully less noise, and narrow the aperture for deeper field.

The final component is the AF setting which I have been studying but not entirely understanding.

TIA
I attempted a bit of video at a recent show and wa... (show quote)


Hello,
If you have posted your video someplace, it would be nice to see what your subject matter was, the environment you were shooting at and the lighting.
It sounds like you were filming a show (music or theater performance?) which I would assume you may have been in the audience.
I’m not an expert by any means, but a couple suggestions that might improve focus or shaky footage.

A tripod would be ideal, but not always practical. I’ve resorted to using a monopod (doesn’t stop side/side movements) which helps up/down movements and prevents arm muscle fatigue or a mini flexible leg tripod if there is an empty seat in front of me. Otherwise a tripod whenever feasible.

Use VR and/or IBIS when available, given your shutter speed.

Switch to manual focus if autofocus is hunting all of the time and/or shooting at f1.4. If this is a show and the performers are somewhat static, it’s better to use manual focus unless you have vision issues yourself. Some camera have a focus assist (zebra) or allow you to zoom in to check focus in those instances. Manual focus isn’t hard, but like anything else, it takes a bit of practice to develop the muscle memory.

Your ISO looks fine. That shouldn’t cause any problems (at least it hasn’t for me). Unless you need the 60 fps for possible slow-motion in post processing, you can drop to 24 or 25 fps and drop shutter speed to 1/50. That will allow you to lower your ISO or increase your aperture.

Regarding DSLR vs mirrorless for video, I think the Nikon Z series is better suited for video if you intend to shoot more video in the future. Cell phones are essentially mirrorless cameras and are excellent options.
I bought a Nikon Z6 primarily for video purposes, though I still shoot a lot of photos. I also use my iPhone 7 and my D3400 for video as well. Autofocus is pretty good in all cases, but it depends on subject, lighting, obstructions, aperture. Shaky footage is almost always due to handholding/operator movement, kicking the tripod, wind, etc

My YouTube channel is MyVideo Buffet
Read video descriptions for equipment used, if interested
Good luck, Stephen

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