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What level sound to use?
Aug 10, 2022 19:07:24   #
vanderhala Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 
Just started recently with video DSLR recording . My interest is chamber music and I recorded Chamber music workshops.
Recording sound on SD card with Zoom H5 recorder in Stereo mode, 2 Behringer B5 microphones hooked up to the XLR ports . Line output to my Nikon DSLR microphone input. for simultaneous recording, with plans to edit the Zoom recordings into the video ((I should be able to line up the sound and the video).
The sound on the Zoom Scared was stressed, and I was pointed out that Line output should be decreased for mic input.

My question: what is the level of output I should set the output to : it can be adjust 0-30 db, but I have not seen a level range for the mic input of Nikon mic sound.
Thanks in advance.

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Aug 11, 2022 10:50:16   #
bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA
 
I have a friend, Joe, who is married to a musician. Her primary instrument is a clarinet. She has a friend that is a violinist. During Covid year 1, the violinist ask be to video several duet sessions. All of them are type A perfectionists! And, Joe has been on the hook for years to make perfect recordings for his wife, the clarinetist.

Joe uses a Zoom H4 and expensive mics. He taught me to adjust the recording level with best quality headphones plugged into the H4. The goal is to capture all the delicate musical nuances with NO risk of clipping. Clipping ruins everything and can't be fixed. The recording level is never the same "dB" because the music performed and the room are never the same. For Joe, lower setting are best. A bonus is that the almost always present "noise" is minimized at lower settings.

The setting in the camera should also be low. The reason is that, no matter the brand of camera, the small pre-amps are never great. Better to lower the setting in the camera and if possible raise the output of the recorder to the camera. Camera settings are not critical because the camera track is only used for syncing in post processing.

Joe's workflow includes the use of the (free) program called Audacity. Knowing that program is an artform in itself! Joe uses it to "perfect" the music tracks and remove inevitable background noise.

What are you using for post processing? I had good results from Premiere Pro because the syncing of Joe's (perfected) audio track to my video clip was quick, automatic, easy and perfect. Once synced, the clip audio was muted so never showed up in the output. I also have used the cheaper Premiere Elements but syncing techniques take some work.

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Aug 11, 2022 16:02:27   #
vanderhala Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 
bsprague wrote:
I have a friend, Joe, who is married to a musician. Her primary instrument is a clarinet. She has a friend that is a violinist. During Covid year 1, the violinist ask be to video several duet sessions. All of them are type A perfectionists! And, Joe has been on the hook for years to make perfect recordings for his wife, the clarinetist.

Joe uses a Zoom H4 and expensive mics. He taught me to adjust the recording level with best quality headphones plugged into the H4. The goal is to capture all the delicate musical nuances with NO risk of clipping. Clipping ruins everything and can't be fixed. The recording level is never the same "dB" because the music performed and the room are never the same. For Joe, lower setting are best. A bonus is that the almost always present "noise" is minimized at lower settings.

The setting in the camera should also be low. The reason is that, no matter the brand of camera, the small pre-amps are never great. Better to lower the setting in the camera and if possible raise the output of the recorder to the camera. Camera settings are not critical because the camera track is only used for syncing in post processing.

Joe's workflow includes the use of the (free) program called Audacity. Knowing that program is an artform in itself! Joe uses it to "perfect" the music tracks and remove inevitable background noise.

What are you using for post processing? I had good results from Premiere Pro because the syncing of Joe's (perfected) audio track to my video clip was quick, automatic, easy and perfect. Once synced, the clip audio was muted so never showed up in the output. I also have used the cheaper Premiere Elements but syncing techniques take some work.
I have a friend, Joe, who is married to a musician... (show quote)


Thank you. I have not yet check out Audacity (except for my Volvo), and will.
My camera mic input has choices of auto vs manual sensitivity and voice versus wide range. I used wide range and autosensitvity as I planned to eliminate the track eventually anyway after use for syncing, using the recorded sound from the Zoom. Nevertheless due to the voltage or dB input difference he sound recorded in the camera became distorted somewhat. Except by listening , is there a guideline of dB settings,? I cannot find specifications of the voltage input of the camera mic nor voltage output of the line output of the Zoom recorder, while I do have choice of dB levels of the line output.
I have not yet tried the Adobe premier pro, seems a lot of money for too many capabilities i probably won't use.

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Aug 12, 2022 14:01:25   #
Mozengrazen Loc: Ilion, NY
 
Just let the camera record with it's own mic using the manual level control adjusted so it doesn't peak. You are sending a line level signal into a microphone level input and are overdriving it.

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Aug 13, 2022 11:56:00   #
vanderhala Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 
Mozengrazen wrote:
Just let the camera record with it's own mic using the manual level control adjusted so it doesn't peak. You are sending a line level signal into a microphone level input and are overdriving it.


Yes I know I did, but I found out I can adjust the level of the line output . However the quality of a external microphone signal is supposed to be much better than the camera's microphone, plus the camera and microphone are much further away from the subjects : poorer and muffles quality as well as picking up external m=noises , even having turned off auto focusing which obviously is very audible.

The question is : adjust to what ?

Thanks

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Nov 11, 2022 13:35:33   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
vanderhala wrote:
Just started recently with video DSLR recording . My interest is chamber music and I recorded Chamber music workshops.
Recording sound on SD card with Zoom H5 recorder in Stereo mode, 2 Behringer B5 microphones hooked up to the XLR ports . Line output to my Nikon DSLR microphone input. for simultaneous recording, with plans to edit the Zoom recordings into the video ((I should be able to line up the sound and the video).
The sound on the Zoom Scared was stressed, and I was pointed out that Line output should be decreased for mic input.

My question: what is the level of output I should set the output to : it can be adjust 0-30 db, but I have not seen a level range for the mic input of Nikon mic sound.
Thanks in advance.
Just started recently with video DSLR recording . ... (show quote)


Mic level is usually around -55db to -45db. Consumer gear line level is -10db. Pro line level can be as high as +4db. So you may need a "pad" of some sort. A pad is a resistive device used to lower line levels to match mic inputs. I would start with around -25 to -45 db. The pad is usually a short cable with pigtails that connect on one side to your line out from the recorder, and on the other side to the mic in on the camera. You can find them at B&H and other dealers who sell AV gear. Sescom makes some of them. Look first at the SES-43DB-MZ2P - 3.5mm TRS to RCA, 43dB Attenuating Line to Mic Level Cable - 18 Inch. It's made to work with cameras to drop line level to mic level.

Nikon dSLRs are not known for having high quality audio circuits, so I would turn the camera level all the way down (if it is adjustable) to avoid circuit hiss and electro-mechanical/radio frequency interference (EFI/RFI). That will let you use a higher input level (but you'll probably still need a pad).

Alternatively, you can do what I do and just match up the waveforms from the built-in camera mics to your recorder's output. However, for most of my work, I'm using Lumix cameras, which have quite decent preamps, level controls, switchable peak limiters, and meters. So I just record a single source into the camera, unless the subject requires very high fidelity audio (music). Then, I'm syncing to a recorder.

Be sure all sound is recorded at 48KHz sample rate. If the camera and the recorder are at different sample rates, the sound will drift out of sync over a few minutes' time.

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Nov 11, 2022 13:41:00   #
vanderhala Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 
burkphoto wrote:
Mic level is usually around -55db to -45db. Consumer gear line level is -10db. Pro line level can be as high as +4db. So you may need a "pad" of some sort. A pad is a resistive device used to lower line levels to match mic inputs. I would start with around -25 to -35 db.

Nikon dSLRs are not known for having high quality audio circuits, so I would turn the camera level all the way down (if it is adjustable) to avoid circuit hiss and electro-mechanical/radio frequency interference (EFI/RFI). That will let you use a higher input level (but you'll probably still need a pad).

Alternatively, you can do what I do and just match up the waveforms from the built-in camera mics to your recorder's output. However, for most of my work, I'm using Lumix cameras, which have quite decent preamps, level controls, switchable peak limiters, and meters. So I just record a single source into the camera, unless the subject requires very high fidelity audio (music). Then, I'm syncing to a recorder.

Be sure all sound is recorded at 48KHz sample rate. If the camera and the recorder are at different sample rates, the sound will drift out of sync over a few minutes' time.
Mic level is usually around -55db to -45db. Consum... (show quote)


Thanks . My recorder has adaptation of level output .
Yes I planned the same : match up the sound tracks and eventually delete the camera sound track .
I have been lazy to force myself to start working on this summers recordings, still haven’t decided which program to use .
Andre

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Nov 11, 2022 13:53:00   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
vanderhala wrote:
Thanks . My recorder has adaptation of level output .
Yes I planned the same : match up the sound tracks and eventually delete the camera sound track .
I have been lazy to force myself to start working on this summers recordings, still haven’t decided which program to use .
Andre


If you want free and powerful, download the free version of DaVinci Resolve (Mac or Windows PC). If you're a Mac user, iMovie is a great start. If you need more, Final Cut Pro is the ultimate Mac only editor. If you are on Windows, Adobe Premiere Elements is a good start, and Premiere Pro is a very popular choice for advanced work. But Davinci ought to do it.

On further reflection, I see that Sescom makes a cable for Zoom recorders that has -25db attenuation (gain reduction). They also make one with -35db gain reduction that is primarily for TASCAM recorders. -43db seems a bit extreme, made for a 2-volt line level, which is from pro audio consoles.

https://www.markertek.com/product/ln2mic-zoomh6/sescom-ln2mic-zoomh6-dslr-cable-3-5mm-line-to-3-5mm-mic-25db-attenuation-for-zoom-h6-9-inch

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