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The Declaration of Independence on the Constitution inexorably tied together.
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Jul 3, 2022 13:29:21   #
bob44044 Loc: Ohio
 
The Declaration of Independence on the Constitution inexorably tied together. The Declaration influenced the drafting of the Constitution itself; the abolitionist movement and Abraham Lincoln’s conception of a new birth of freedom after the Civil War; the women’s suffrage; Dr. King and the Civil Rights revolution; and through to the modern conservative originalist movement.
With that thought in mind, The Declaration of Independence says, “We hold these t***hs to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to affect their Safety and Happiness.”
We are “endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.” One of these three inalienable Rights is “Life”.
By aborting a baby, you are violating its “inalienable Right to life”. That means those that do it or support it are by any definition of law murderers or complicate to the crime.

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Jul 3, 2022 14:07:57   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Bob, you make a good point.

Now, let's look at the First Amendment to the Constitution. In that amendment, one of the freedoms stated is religious freedom. To that end, we need to look at the Jewish approach to pregnancy in that the fetus is only a part of the mother and doesn't become a human being until it is born. So, how does that correspond to your statements here?

I only offer this as a point of conversation.
--Bob

bob44044 wrote:
The Declaration of Independence on the Constitution inexorably tied together. The Declaration influenced the drafting of the Constitution itself; the abolitionist movement and Abraham Lincoln’s conception of a new birth of freedom after the Civil War; the women’s suffrage; Dr. King and the Civil Rights revolution; and through to the modern conservative originalist movement.
With that thought in mind, The Declaration of Independence says, “We hold these t***hs to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to affect their Safety and Happiness.”
We are “endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.” One of these three inalienable Rights is “Life”.
By aborting a baby, you are violating its “inalienable Right to life”. That means those that do it or support it are by any definition of law murderers or complicate to the crime.
The Declaration of Independence on the Constitutio... (show quote)

Reply
Jul 3, 2022 14:28:20   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
rmalarz wrote:
Bob, you make a good point.

Now, let's look at the First Amendment to the Constitution. In that amendment, one of the freedoms stated is religious freedom. To that end, we need to look at the Jewish approach to pregnancy in that the fetus is only a part of the mother and doesn't become a human being until it is born. So, how does that correspond to your statements here?

I only offer this as a point of conversation.
--Bob


Because the USA does not follow any religion so there is no problem.
The term creator is used specifically as throughout humanity there is a rich history that there is a creator.
The concept of no creator is a very recent, historically, concept going against the long history of humans.
And even the current Jewish approach is interesting as the New Testament was written by Jews and the meeting of Mary and Elizabeth met.
Then in the Old Testament there is the problem in Jeremiah, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
So how do these jive with current Jewish beliefs?

Reply
 
 
Jul 3, 2022 14:29:23   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
Interesting reply. My thoughts are that since if I am charged with murder for k*****g the fetus even if on the way to the a******n clinic then it's a human being. I do like the question about religious freedom though. I'm just basing my point on the criminal code.

Reply
Jul 3, 2022 14:29:55   #
Frank T Loc: New York, NY
 
rmalarz wrote:
Bob, you make a good point.

Now, let's look at the First Amendment to the Constitution. In that amendment, one of the freedoms stated is religious freedom. To that end, we need to look at the Jewish approach to pregnancy in that the fetus is only a part of the mother and doesn't become a human being until it is born. So, how does that correspond to your statements here?

I only offer this as a point of conversation.
--Bob


If you're not an evangelical Christian, the Constitution and/or the Declaration of Independence do not apply to your rights. While we're at it, if you're not a White Male, who doesn't own land, the Constitution does not apply to you either.
If you are Black, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence didn't affect you either. It continued S***ery and you were considered property.
Please, don't tell me we are a Christian nation, we aren't, nor were we organized as a Christian Nation. It's all bulls**t. The founding fathers were a bunch of rich white guys who didn't want to pay taxes. Now in 2022, we have devolved to seeing a bunch of rich White guys who don't want to pay taxes being in charge of our government.

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Jul 3, 2022 14:34:45   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Frank T wrote:
If you're not an evangelical Christian, the Constitution and/or the Declaration of Independence do not apply to your rights. While we're at it, if you're not a White Male, who doesn't own land, the Constitution does not apply to you either.
If you are Black, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence didn't affect you either. It continued S***ery and you were considered property.
Please, don't tell me we are a Christian nation, we aren't, nor were we organized as a Christian Nation. It's all bulls**t. The founding fathers were a bunch of rich white guys who didn't want to pay taxes. Now in 2022, we have devolved to seeing a bunch of rich White guys who don't want to pay taxes being in charge of our government.
If you're not an evangelical Christian, the Consti... (show quote)


Are we a muslim nation then?
You lack of knowledge of the founders and the founding of this nation is lacking.
All you seem to know are stupid and moronic talking points fed to you by the DNC.

Reply
Jul 3, 2022 14:35:01   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
bob44044 wrote:
The Declaration of Independence on the Constitution inexorably tied together. The Declaration influenced the drafting of the Constitution itself; the abolitionist movement and Abraham Lincoln’s conception of a new birth of freedom after the Civil War; the women’s suffrage; Dr. King and the Civil Rights revolution; and through to the modern conservative originalist movement.
With that thought in mind, The Declaration of Independence says, “We hold these t***hs to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to affect their Safety and Happiness.”
We are “endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.” One of these three inalienable Rights is “Life”.
By aborting a baby, you are violating its “inalienable Right to life”. That means those that do it or support it are by any definition of law murderers or complicate to the crime.
The Declaration of Independence on the Constitutio... (show quote)


Why do you see the woman as having no rights? There is no question as to whether she is a person. She can demand her rights, successfully or not. No fetus that I have ever heard of has stood up for their rights.

Reply
 
 
Jul 3, 2022 14:46:39   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
The New Testament was written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Though they may have started life as members of the Jewish faith, they are looked upon as Catholics, at least once Paul formed, what was then, the foundation of the Catholic religion. However, the Jewish faith doesn't recognize The New Testament as part of Torah or the Talmud.

According to Rabbi David M. Feldman, The a******n question in talmudic law begins with an examination of the fetus' legal status. For this the Talmud has a phrase, ubar yerekh imo, a
counterpart of the Latin pars viscera matris. The fetus is deemed a "part of its mother" rather than an independent entity."*


* https://www.rabbinicalassembly.org/sites/default/files/public/halakhah/teshuvot/19861990/feldman_a******n.pdf

So, once again, there is a confrontation of a religious belief and The First Amendment provides for freedom of religion. It is possible that the founding fathers delt with a very small minority of those of the Jewish faith if any at all. They based the vast majority of freedoms and rights on Christian doctrine and paid little heed to faiths to which they were unacquainted.
--Bob
Architect1776 wrote:
Because the USA does not follow any religion so there is no problem.
The term creator is used specifically as throughout humanity there is a rich history that there is a creator.
The concept of no creator is a very recent, historically, concept going against the long history of humans.
And even the current Jewish approach is interesting as the New Testament was written by Jews and the meeting of Mary and Elizabeth met.
Then in the Old Testament there is the problem in Jeremiah, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
So how do these jive with current Jewish beliefs?
Because the USA does not follow any religion so th... (show quote)

Reply
Jul 3, 2022 15:47:08   #
Frank T Loc: New York, NY
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Are we a muslim nation then?
You lack of knowledge of the founders and the founding of this nation is lacking.
All you seem to know are stupid and moronic talking points fed to you by the DNC.


We are not a country based on any religion.
All you seem to know are stupidity, ignorance and bigotry.
You must be a Republican.

Reply
Jul 3, 2022 18:59:50   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Frank T wrote:
We are not a country based on any religion.
All you seem to know are stupidity, ignorance and bigotry.
You must be a Republican.


Prove me wrong.

Reply
Jul 3, 2022 19:08:05   #
Texcaster Loc: Queensland
 
bob44044 wrote:
The Declaration of Independence on the Constitution inexorably tied together. The Declaration influenced the drafting of the Constitution itself; the abolitionist movement and Abraham Lincoln’s conception of a new birth of freedom after the Civil War; the women’s suffrage; Dr. King and the Civil Rights revolution; and through to the modern conservative originalist movement.
With that thought in mind, The Declaration of Independence says, “We hold these t***hs to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to affect their Safety and Happiness.”
We are “endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.” One of these three inalienable Rights is “Life”.
By aborting a baby, you are violating its “inalienable Right to life”. That means those that do it or support it are by any definition of law murderers or complicate to the crime.
The Declaration of Independence on the Constitutio... (show quote)


“We hold these t***hs to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness ... "

So if everyone was so equal why did *Jefferson own his entire family?

*Although I can see the advantage of selling off the the dinner table troublemakers.

Reply
 
 
Jul 3, 2022 19:16:15   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Texcaster wrote:
“We hold these t***hs to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness ... "

So if everyone was so equal why did Jefferson own his entire family?

Although I can see the advantage of selling off the troublemakers at the dinner table.


Have you ever read any writings of Jefferson or other founders on the subject? Or what was being debated behind the scenes?
NO you have not proving your total ignorance on the subject and not qualified to say anything on the subject.
DNC talking points are more f**e than the Russia h**x that CNN ran with.
Nice try but once you have actually read their works, should take at least 10 years or so then come back and discuss.
And yes it will take that long as the body of work is extensive.

Reply
Jul 3, 2022 19:18:53   #
Texcaster Loc: Queensland
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Have you ever read any writings of Jefferson or other founders on the subject? Or what was being debated behind the scenes?
NO you have not proving your total ignorance on the subject and not qualified to say anything on the subject.
DNC talking points are more f**e than the Russia h**x that CNN ran with.
Nice try but once you have actually read their works, should take at least 10 years or so then come back and discuss.
And yes it will take that long as the body of work is extensive.
Have you ever read any writings of Jefferson or ot... (show quote)


Yes I have.

S***e owners saying ... "We're all equal here." Is a demented joke.

Reply
Jul 3, 2022 19:22:45   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Texcaster wrote:
Yes I have.

S***e owners saying ... "We're all equal here." Is a demented joke.


You have not or you would not be say the stupid ignorant things you do.
So you lie as always.

Reply
Jul 3, 2022 19:29:06   #
Texcaster Loc: Queensland
 
Architect1776 wrote:
You have not or you would not be say the stupid ignorant things you do.
So you lie as always.


If you understood your readings of Jefferson, you would be mightily POed that an incompetent like Trump thought he could flip the Constitution and no one would notice.

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