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Sunset
Jan 17, 2022 12:51:43   #
StanRP Loc: Ontario Canada
 
This Christian Photography Group was set up to "share photographs and experiences and show fellowship towards each other." In other groups there is a lot of good discussion. I have found that any discussion in this group that does not fit "the party line" is condemned. A few years ago, when I first joined the uglyhedghog, I questioned the teaching that the universe/world was about 6000 years old. Even though this 6000 years is based on both calculations and assumptions, I was consigned to hades for not believing God. No discussion.

To try to promote some discussion: As this is a photography group - I am including a Sunset. Today Christians are leaving the church in droves: In Canada, in the next ten years, statistics show about 9000 churches, a third of the total, will close. It is similar in America and Britain. The Sunset photo could have the caption "The Sunset of the Church"

Can anyone suggest a reason why? I will add something positive: Most people are leaving their churches - not God. Again - for some discussion, Can anyone suggest a reason why?

NOTE: The 'hog' does not like references included: You can easily confirm the above stats using an internet seach.



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Jan 18, 2022 08:38:03   #
bobishkan Loc: Fort Myers Sunny Florida
 
Some points: Old earth/new earth argument goes on forever with good Christians on both sides. When so called Christians leave the church, they ARE leaving God too. The church is no longer the church. It is a business/social club where so called pastors meet with so called believers. The problem starts in the liberal seminaries. They incorrectly train blind men to lead the blind. The church has lost its power, it's influence and no longer preaches the truth found only in the Bible. Most of the mainline denominations have gone down the tubes. They preach a social gospel and give the people what they want to hear, always asking for more money. For example, when one hears weekly that God wants you healthy and wealthy and then you get sick, one starts to question the Gospel. In my county, there are about 150 churches. I would only consider going to about ten of them and they represent many denominations. Only about ten are mostly faithful to God's Word. The others try to compete with Hollywood and fail. The main reason churches are closing is that they have lost the power of the Holy Spirit and offer nothing to the people that go there. So we have a whole country that claims to be baptized Christians that are not saved going to churches where most of the pastors have no idea which end is up. That's my two cents!!

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Jan 18, 2022 10:00:52   #
PGJR Loc: 33868
 
I totally agree with bobishkan. We are extremely fortunate that our Pastor preaches Jesus in every sermon, all the way from Genesis to Revelation. He studies for his sermon in the original Greek. He pastored under Adrian Rogers for a season.

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Jan 18, 2022 10:09:08   #
AzPicLady Loc: Behind the camera!
 
The devil is alive and well and working very hard. People do not want to hear - or abide by - the Truth. They have "itching ears" that only want to hear what they want. They want their own form of a god that is their own making instead of the God of the universe. In order to keep people "churches" preach a gospel that will please the attendees instead of Truth. Frankly, I'm not sure they know Truth. I did some Bible studies in Belize some time back, and I was amazed at the people who were very religious, church-attending people who knew absolutely nothing from God's word - only what their leader/pastor/preacher said. When we read the Bible to them, they were amazed!

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Jan 18, 2022 10:29:59   #
PGJR Loc: 33868
 
My wife pretty much said the same thing when she came back from Belize. We experienced some folks leaving our church when our Pastor came. You can listen to one of his Podcast on Spotify & other apps in "Enjoying the Bible". He also wrote the book "Letters From Hell". I believe it's on Amazon.

Paul

Romans 8:18

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Jan 18, 2022 10:32:23   #
CSand Loc: Fayetteville, Georgia
 
We can safely look to scripture for guidance. My understanding is that in " the beginning of times before Christ returns", there will be a separation, the sheep from the goats. There are many who acknowledge there is a God but do not understand being born again. Jesus says you must be born again and that is through Him and Him alone. Not one comes to the Father except through Jesus. They know in their minds but have never truly repented and surrendered and received the Holy Spirit in their hearts. When speaking to them about the issue, I have found that if they become hostile you pretty much can understand their standing. Not judging, Christ says you will know them by their fruit. Be patient with them, love and pray for them. That God will remove their blindness and they come to salvation, drawn by Holy Spirit. As far as leaving the churches. I feel this is true to a point. I left my church for reasons I will not state, but I did not leave my God. I still love the folks there and the Pastor. Since I have moved to North Georgia, and have not found a church yet, but hope to. I "go to church by TV. I follow 4 or 5 wonderful men of God and I am so fed by them. I needed the depth of their teaching. There are indeed false teachers on TV but it is pretty easy to know that they are. You can sense when someone truly loves and belongs to our God. Stay in the Word, stay in prayer, live every moment with our Father and go forward serving Him in the ways in which He leads you. Know you are loved by your Brothers and Sisters in Christ, and in Him, no condemnation, only love.

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Jan 18, 2022 12:39:42   #
StanRP Loc: Ontario Canada
 
bobishkan wrote:
Some points: Old earth/new earth argument goes on forever with good Christians on both sides. When so called Christians leave the church, they ARE leaving God too. The church is no longer the church. It is a business/social club where so called pastors meet with so called believers. The problem starts in the liberal seminaries. They incorrectly train blind men to lead the blind. The church has lost its power, it's influence and no longer preaches the truth found only in the Bible. Most of the mainline denominations have gone down the tubes. They preach a social gospel and give the people what they want to hear, always asking for more money. For example, when one hears weekly that God wants you healthy and wealthy and then you get sick, one starts to question the Gospel. In my county, there are about 150 churches. I would only consider going to about ten of them and they represent many denominations. Only about ten are mostly faithful to God's Word. The others try to compete with Hollywood and fail. The main reason churches are closing is that they have lost the power of the Holy Spirit and offer nothing to the people that go there. So we have a whole country that claims to be baptized Christians that are not saved going to churches where most of the pastors have no idea which end is up. That's my two cents!!
Some points: Old earth/new earth argument goes on ... (show quote)


******

Hi Bob

Many thanks for your reply. The Young/Old earth does matter in education where the ’New earth/universe’ " teaching is pushed to prove that in a few days, man did not have time to ‘evolve’. The result is that in academia, the Bible is rejected as nonsense. So is the data used to prove man’s origin is via evolution The book used is Darwin’s “On the Origin of Species”: In chapter VI ‘ Organs of extreme Perfection and Complication ’ he writes: “To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree”.

“When so called Christians leave the church, they ARE leaving God too”

If that were true, every christian in the world would still be a member of the ‘Roman Catholic Church’. The reformation was started by those who disagreed with church teaching. They were called “The Protesters” - the beginning of the Protestant Churches.

The rest of what you write confirms that there is a serious problem: The church has been organized into ‘denominations’ with a ‘head office’ that tells members what they must believe and do. When this conflicts with Scripture, people leave - but not always leaving God. We read in Acts 2:47 “Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved”. Today, the church has favour with no-one: Why would God add to it?

Right before going to the Cross, Jesus said to his disciples ( and us) "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another". (John 13:34-5). If the church started keeping this command, instead of pushing it's own doctrines, the church may well find an avalanche of people joining.

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Jan 18, 2022 13:59:32   #
StanRP Loc: Ontario Canada
 
Hi,
A very good response - With including your personal experience, a better one than mine to Bob. There are many things taught, pushed, by the church that do not even get a mention in the New Testament, yet, for some unknown reason, the one that God classes as most important in both the OT and NT, to love one another (agape) is mostly ignored. For years, there has been talk in church circles about a coming big 'revival'. i suspect that this will begin among those Christians who have left the organized church - where it is directed by God, not church denominational head offices

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Jan 18, 2022 14:31:34   #
yssirk123 Loc: New Jersey
 
The litmus test for me is if a Church believes in the 10 commandments and especially "Thou shalt not kill". I left 2 churches that did not.

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Jan 18, 2022 14:47:46   #
StanRP Loc: Ontario Canada
 
yssirk123 wrote:
The litmus test for me is if a Church believes in the 10 commandments and especially "Thou shalt not kill". I left 2 churches that did not.


Hi, The "Thou shalt not kill " in the original is "Thou shalt not murder " ie: kill without good reason. There are occasions where what is described as an abortion is needed to save the mothers life. In many cases, the body does this for itself - and is called a 'miscarriage'. I cannot understand how killing a viable baby prior to, or while being born, is not legally defined as murder.

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Jan 18, 2022 15:47:06   #
KTJohnson Loc: Northern Michigan
 
StanRP relates that folks are leaving the churches in droves and asks for a suggestion as to why.

Many good answers above. Another that comes to mind is fear, particularly in this time of Covid and the constant sensationalism of it by the media and our governments, both Canadian & U.S. But I don't believe that is the main reason.

The Bible gives us the best explanation in God's own words. We have been in the "end times" ever since Jesus Christ was caught up to Heaven (Acts 1:9). Certainly 2,000 + years later we are much closer to what the Bible describes as the end times, and His 2nd Coming.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 states: "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first." I believe that "falling away" or apostacy is what is beginning to happen right now. It's been happening in Europe for a hundred years or more, now we're seeing it happening here at an ever increasing rate. It will happen even more so as society continues to turn away from God. As the persecution steps up, all or most of the "nominal Christians" will forsake God & the church.

I don't see anywhere in Scripture where it talks about a "big revival" before Christ returns. That view was popularized by the "Christian Reconstruction" movement (look it up), and some "postmillenialists". I don't agree with their interpretation of Scripture.

Eschatology is a very interesting and important area of study, but sadly many people & Christians know little about it because it hasn't been taught.

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Jan 18, 2022 19:32:09   #
StanRP Loc: Ontario Canada
 
KTJohnson wrote:
StanRP relates that folks are leaving the churches in droves and asks for a suggestion as to why.

Many good answers above. Another that comes to mind is fear, particularly in this time of Covid and the constant sensationalism of it by the media and our governments, both Canadian & U.S. But I don't believe that is the main reason.

The Bible gives us the best explanation in God's own words. We have been in the "end times" ever since Jesus Christ was caught up to Heaven (Acts 1:9). Certainly 2,000 + years later we are much closer to what the Bible describes as the end times, and His 2nd Coming.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 states: "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first." I believe that "falling away" or apostacy is what is beginning to happen right now. It's been happening in Europe for a hundred years or more, now we're seeing it happening here at an ever increasing rate. It will happen even more so as society continues to turn away from God. As the persecution steps up, all or most of the "nominal Christians" will forsake God & the church.

I don't see anywhere in Scripture where it talks about a "big revival" before Christ returns. That view was popularized by the "Christian Reconstruction" movement (look it up), and some "postmillenialists". I don't agree with their interpretation of Scripture.

Eschatology is a very interesting and important area of study, but sadly many people & Christians know little about it because it hasn't been taught.
StanRP relates that folks are leaving the churches... (show quote)



Hi KT: Some good comments: RE: ”I don't see anywhere in Scripture where it talks about a "big revival" before Christ returns”. I am sure that if this was true, Jesus would have included this in his answer, when the the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Matt 24:3. As for the ‘when’: Those who teach Pre-Mid and Post tribulation believe they know more about the scriptures than Jesus, who told us in Matt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

RE: “ As the persecution steps up, many of the "nominal Christians" will forsake God & the church.”. Jesus taught about this in the parable of the sower: Matt 13:18, however many are leaving to get away from what is being taught and practiced in their church, or even being forced out for not submitting to it. Most, if not all of these have not left God. Being part of a group of believers is good, but not mandatory: Heb 10:25

In the early church, The name Christian (Christ One) was given to them because of the way they were a blessing to the community (John 13:34-35). Do an internet search using "christians reduced the severity of epidemics in rome"

NOTE: In the Bible, the word greek word ‘ekklesia’ translated ‘church means a whole body of believers, not a congregation controlled by a denomination meeting in building.

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