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Light Meter
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Jan 14, 2022 20:16:00   #
BebuLamar
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
When shooting people in the studio, shooting, reviewing, and adjusting every time I change the lighting doesn't look professional to me. A quick reading with a flash meter does.


Now that I can't argue with you that you have to look a certain way in front of your clients and models.

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Jan 14, 2022 20:53:08   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
azted wrote:
I have been on the cusp about buying a light meter. I only shoot mirrorless, but I am expanding my use of off camera lighting, by purchasing more flashes, strobes, stands, and electronic transmitters. I would like to hear the professionals talk about this topic prior to spending more of my decreasing amount of cash on equipment! (I have purchased several books on the lighting topic)


Can we come back to the posted example? Is a light meter being proposed as a solution to this image? It's slightly out of focus, everywhere that it is almost perfect focus, especially the eyes, are soft in the fine details. The colors and overall details are very nice, but the lighting appears to be a misplacement of the flash, not the flash output, nor camera exposure. Shot at f/1.4, maybe that's as sharp as this lens gets? I think the focus could be sharper, and definitely the shadow over his forehead could be corrected, assuming this wasn't the intended result. I don't see how a light meter is the relevant solution to this image.

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Jan 14, 2022 21:05:13   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
When shooting people in the studio, shooting, reviewing, and adjusting every time I change the lighting doesn't look professional to me. A quick reading with a flash meter does.


That's right! Not only does it "LOOK" unprofessional, but I also find it worth really hindering my method of shooting portraits which entails maintaining a rapport with the subject and shooting rapidly, at the time, the capture fleeting expression or catching the "action" when photographing active children. If I had to "chimp" or even make continuous read during a shoot, I would surely miss many goo expressions and natural poses.

Before a portrait session, I will use my meter to verify that everthing is working. When I make minor changes in lightgg position lighting positions, I can usually compensate instinctively, I will meter or chimp very intermittently just to verify that everything is intact and rolling along.

I find the meter rater indefectible for location work in unfamiliar s surroundings so that I can re-assemble the light as if I were in the studio and the ever to the aforementioned method.

The meter is almost mandatory for certain kinds of commercial work such as when lighting interiors, blending flash with ambient interior lighting and outdoor scenes that are visible through windows. A meter is also a necessary tool in copying and art reproduction where evenl lighting is required.

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Jan 14, 2022 23:25:38   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Can we come back to the posted example? Is a light meter being proposed as a solution to this image? It's slightly out of focus, everywhere that it is almost perfect focus, especially the eyes, are soft in the fine details. The colors and overall details are very nice, but the lighting appears to be a misplacement of the flash, not the flash output, nor camera exposure. Shot at f/1.4, maybe that's as sharp as this lens gets? I think the focus could be sharper, and definitely, the shadow over his forehead could be corrected, assuming this wasn't the intended result. I don't see how a light meter is a relevant solution to this image.
Can we come back to the posted example? Is a light... (show quote)


The OP mentioned that he is setting up a studio-like situation using fash, not available light. My advice is based on flash usage and metering with an external meter.

The image he posted, on my screen, appeared to have a serious oversaturated red/yellow skin tone. I did not enlarge the image enough to analyze focus but it seems sharp enough. It was processed in one of the Portrato Pro software which may have softened the image. If that software is applied in someof the pre-set modes it will retouch and softer the image as it sees fit. It can also be used in manual mode to vary the degree of retouching and diffusion. He did not ask for a critique on the lighting but, to me, there are many inconsistencies in light direction, there is no light in the eyes, the camera position is too low.

The OP mentions that he is studying books on lighting and I assume eventually he will get into basic posing, proper views of the facial structure, camera position, composition and more. The aperture setting that is indicated in the data seems inconsistent with the flas output of most flash gear. Perhaps the exposure was made with the modelling lamps.

I would hope that's OP realizes that a flash meter and attaining proper exposure is not going to address the issue of lighting forms and placement, focus, and portrait aesthetics. Being able to meter and calculate proper exposure and determine lighting ratios for various contrasts, keys, and dramatic effects is a good starting point.

Portrait aesthetics as to lighting, pose and the camera angle is subjective and there are many styles that are not formal or traditional. When a person is starting out, however, learning some of the traditional basics of contemporary classic portraiture is a good basis for further stylization and creativity.

The camera and lens he is using should serve him well once he gets all the basics under control.

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Jan 15, 2022 05:59:13   #
mikegreenwald Loc: Illinois
 
I still lean heavily on an incident light meter for landscapes in bright or high contrast situations. Combine that with bracketing and HDR at times, and you can’t do much better.
I use either Gossen or Sekonic meters - they both work fine. I have little experience with studio lighting, but shooting there with digital, multiple test shots get the job done. Back in film days, the test shots were Polaroid.

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Jan 15, 2022 07:53:45   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
rgrenaderphoto wrote:
Can't you accomplish the same thing with the camera's internal meter and a remote trigger?


Some Sekonic light meters have a white dome you can put over the sensor, it gives you a incident light reading, your camera uses a reflected light meter, a reflected light meter can be fooled by either very bright light like light reflecting off snow, or very dark readings. A incident reads the light that reaches the meter, which in some cases can be much more accurate than a camera's meter.
The Sekonic L-308X-U can read direct, incident, and flash, it can also help with proper fill flash outside and inside studio flash readings.
I have used this guy for years and have found it very accurate to use.
Good luck and keep on shooting until the end.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1390250-REG/sekonic_401_305_l_308x_u_flashmate_light_meter.html

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Jan 15, 2022 09:24:46   #
GLSmith Loc: Tampa, Fl
 
Know & understand that light meters measure 2 different types of light (incident and reflective). Practice taking test images of both types beforehand. There are enough of the "Top rated" web links out there with various brands to choke an elephant. Pricing is usually attached as a guide to assist you based on your funding.

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Jan 15, 2022 09:38:10   #
uhaas2009
 
Let’s look at you picture: you used three lights on one the background, one smaller one her left side and one bigger on her right side. Let’s look at her right side. The light is on her shoulder, her cheek and under her chin and the light angle is about 45 decree and the light height is about her shoulder.
Let’s change this and put the light with a bigger light modifier next to your camera and raise the height of your light and angle it down. If you have a model light than take your phone and stand in front of this light turn 360 degree and up and down to see what the light does. I do this where ever I’m. To Learn first to see the light and shades it helped me. All the courses and books drove me crazy but know it makes more sense.
Yes I downsize equipment, it’s to much to carry to much around and not always helpful....lol...

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Jan 15, 2022 10:55:37   #
Alafoto Loc: Montgomery, AL
 
azted wrote:
Let's say you are setting up several strobe lights and want to see the power settings on each one prior to letting the subject sit. Isn't this where a light meter comes in handy?


A flash meter will allow you to determine and/or adjust the output from each flash in order to control the lighting ratio of your image. High key, low key, or in between. I don't know how you could do studio portraiture without one.

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Jan 15, 2022 11:30:25   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
azted wrote:
I have been on the cusp about buying a light meter. I only shoot mirrorless, but I am expanding my use of off camera lighting, by purchasing more flashes, strobes, stands, and electronic transmitters. I would like to hear the professionals talk about this topic prior to spending more of my decreasing amount of cash on equipment! (I have purchased several books on the lighting topic)


Sekonic, Minolta, and Gossen are top names in flash meters. They generally will function as incident and reflected continuous light meters, too, so they're pretty versatile. I have an old Gossen Luna Pro F and a slightly newer Minolta Auto Meter IIIF, that have stood the test of time. The Gossen is simpler, the Minolta is more versatile.

You should probably talk to a pro at the counter of a top camera store and view some typical options. Whatever meter you buy, you will likely need to calibrate it to YOUR equipment (so the meter provides the right exposure information for YOUR sensor and lens combination). This calibration could be a simple adjustment on the meter, or an EV offset of some sort that you add or subtract from each reading.

It doesn't matter what camera system you use. Light is light, and you'll meter it the same way with a given external meter regardless of the camera.

You can minimize your expenses on lighting gear by learning the basics of studio light control and manipulation. Learning to determine lighting ratios on 3D subjects, control specularity, control diffuse highlight intensity, control the diffuse highlight to shadow edge acuteness, and control the diffuse highlight to shadow ratio will go a long way to informing which tools you need for a given situation. Understanding all these terms, their ranges, and their uses is really a prerequisite to a trip to the camera store or web browser.

Reflectors, scrims, diffusers, umbrellas, and soft boxes come in many sizes, styles, and transmission characteristics. Lights can be flash, HMI, LED, CFL, FL, incandescent, or window daylight. There is a broad range of tools available.

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Jan 15, 2022 11:36:31   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Bill, the Sekonic meter I use allows for up to three profiles to be stored in the meter. Thus, metering with it matches the camera being used.
--Bob
burkphoto wrote:
Sekonic, Minolta, and Gossen are top names in flash meters. They generally will function as incident and reflected continuous light meters, too, so they're pretty versatile. I have an old Gossen Luna Pro F and a slightly newer Minolta Auto Meter IIIF, that have stood the test of time. The Gossen is simpler, the Minolta is more versatile.

You should probably talk to a pro at the counter of a top camera store and view some typical options. Whatever meter you buy, you will likely need to calibrate it to YOUR equipment (so the meter provides the right exposure information for YOUR sensor and lens combination). This calibration could be a simple adjustment on the meter, or an EV offset of some sort that you add or subtract from each reading.

It doesn't matter what camera system you use. Light is light, and you'll meter it the same way with a given external meter regardless of the camera.

You can minimize your expenses on lighting gear by learning the basics of studio light control and manipulation. Learning to determine lighting ratios on 3D subjects, control specularity, control diffuse highlight intensity, control the diffuse highlight to shadow edge acuteness, and control the diffuse highlight to shadow ratio will go a long way to informing which tools you need for a given situation. Understanding all these terms, their ranges, and their uses is really a prerequisite to a trip to the camera store or web browser.

Reflectors, scrims, diffusers, umbrellas, and soft boxes come in many sizes, styles, and transmission characteristics. Lights can be flash, HMI, LED, CFL, FL, incandescent, or window daylight. There is a broad range of tools available.
Sekonic, Minolta, and Gossen are top names in flas... (show quote)

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Jan 15, 2022 11:36:59   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
azted carefully read/study Ed Shapiro's responses to your query...
Ed speaks from much experience and inherent wisdom.

While I'm not a "professional" photographer a.k.a. one whose main source of income is from the aforementioned, I am a "commercial" studio photographer where time is money. There is virtually no viable substitute for an incident light meter for "Balancing" illumination from multiple sources.

Btw, an incident meter measures the light that is illuminating your subject, whereas a reflected light meter measures the light that is reflecting from your subject. Those posters who lack a clear understanding of this reality are fooled into believing that their "In Camera" exposure meter (which is actually only a reflected light meter) is all they need to obtain outstanding illumination scenarios. Just not happening albeit even a blind squirrel can occasional find a nut...

azted you have purported in your post to have "(I have purchased several books on the lighting topic)" I strongly recommend you actually read/study them. Pay serious attention to "Lighting Ratios" which are critical for achieving stellar outcomes (experience is a brutal teacher).

I would pretty much ignore posts by those who "claim" they don't need a light meter for their studio lighting imagery. Forgive them for their nativity i.e. ignorance is bliss.

What is my tool of choice? A Sekonic L-308S, it provides all the information I need to balance a multi-light scenario. Besides it is rather cost effective (btw I have two identical Sekonic L-308S to check one against the other and if by chance one fails during a commercial shoot.)

azted over the years I've had the pleasure of many hundreds of studio sessions... I also hold a Cosmetology License in Make Up from the state of Maryland. As such I've collaborated on well over a thousand studio sessions. What most folks don't realize is the amount of time commercial teams take in setting up their lighting on location gigs. They all without exception rely on both incident and reflected light meters. And yes they will validate their final settings with test exposures to "fine tune" illumination as per the AD (Art Director and/or Client) on the shoot.

I have to smile at your inference that you only shoot "mirrorless", azted guess in order to gain traction on UHH that is now a prerequisite :) Also I totally agree with Paul's inference that your example image speaks to lack of understanding of commercial photography. Portraiture at f/1.4 on a 85mm is not the norm... far from it... However it works well to impress the naive that you have deep enough pockets to afford "fast glass". Yes all camera vendors want you to believe that you can only achieve excellence with the most pricey product... Maybe rethink your f/1.4 aperture here and stop down to f/4 or f/5.6 which are industry standards for portraiture... (and have been for quite some time). The only compelling exception might be for location scenarios where a high degree of "background clutter" could prove to be a distraction. Then going wide open (or close to it) could be an appropriate option for isolating a viewer's gaze on your sitter's eyes... Hope this makes sense.

Best Advice azted? Assist other commercial studio photographers in your market. This has been my route into studio illumination. But how? My path was joining ASMP at the recommendation of one of my clients (an ASMP member) who I did makeup on her shoots. Albeit unlike the PPA you'll need a sponsor, thus best to build a coherent portfolio with a strong and consistent visual statement first.

Oh, I just noticed Bill Burkholder's post above.... Bill is the man! He's been there; done that... Please place much credence on what Bill has shared with you here. It is indeed golden!

Hope this helps azted... Wishing you all the best on your epic journey into the the exciting realm of studio illumination. Cheers! Thomas

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Jan 15, 2022 12:10:42   #
PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA
 
mikegreenwald wrote:
I still lean heavily on an incident light meter for landscapes in bright or high contrast situations. Combine that with bracketing and HDR at times, and you can’t do much better...


There is a difference between incident and reflected light. I suspect incident is more accurate while in-camera is measuring reflective.

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Jan 15, 2022 12:42:08   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
Wow, one of the best UHH threads to post in quite awhile - I encourage people to bookmark this thread like I have done ...... !
.

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Jan 15, 2022 12:57:39   #
MJPerini
 
I 'grew up' in professional studios and ALWAYS used light meters. They are Very helpful in all kinds of lighting situations, especially quickly establishing ratios, and dialing in preferred lighting setups across multiple locations.
Having said that I don't think I'd recommend one for the OP. Because you really can do most of what you need to do with your mirrorless camera, test exposures, and a few notes. In fact, if you do that well (step by step exposures and notes) you might learn faster. I do not think a meter is necessary.
In a professional setup with lots of lights independently triggered wirelessly a good meter is the bomb. But mostly it is a speed and efficiency thing. You can always buy a meter, but my guess is if you learn organically, you will conclude you can get the results you want without one. Learning to see light, and getting results you want is more a matter of practice than equipment. Try shooting through a cheap white bed sheet (low thread count = more light.) Learning to use a large single source & a reflector is always my first advice.

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